North Korean biochemical expert flees to Finland: source
english.yonhapnews.co.kr
english.yonhapnews.co.kr
PS - The reason my initial reaction is skeptical is not that this type of thing cannot happen (as we witnessed during WWII). It is that other defectors have defected from NK before and told the West exactly what we wanted to hear so they'd receive preferential treatment, these claims get splashed all over the headlines, then it turns out further down the road these people's accounts might not be true (and the corrections are on page 5 in a one paragraph story). But raw data is very compelling proof, hard to fake, so as soon as it has been verified I'll buy it.
EDIT: Interestingly, there are several posts using the same arguments to create doubt about this and all NK defectors (something I also posted elsewhere; sorry).
EDIT2: This follows the pattern of the professional/governmental astroturf campaign pretty closely (though, because the astroturfers' goal is to look like everyone else, I could of course be wrong). Certainly you can imagine the value of creating doubt about all NK defectors. Generally the pros build reputation by making posts on topics unrelated to their goal, and then, when it's time to take action, try to make arguments that go as far as they can while sounding reasonable. Here's a great story on a Russian operation:
Which isn't to say they're untrue. Just unverified.
It is also worth considering that if the West cared about the North Korean people's health and wellbeing we would also have to discuss sanctions in that conversation, as sanctions have definitely caused deaths and suffering within NK.
All I am getting at is, when it comes to NK there is a lot of legitimate "bad" you can say about them. But there is also a lot of propaganda. It is sometimes hard to sort those two things into what is credible and what is uncredible, and defectors are going to say what we want to hear.
> Interestingly, there are several posts using the same arguments to create doubt about this and all NK defectors (something I also posted elsewhere; sorry).
And there are several posts claiming this is just categorically true without even wanting to wait for trusted experts to look at the data. I just want fact, and I believe in this instance (because of the raw data) it is likely that after an examination of the details we can determine with a reasonable degree of certainty the facts of this case.
Seems like that is the minimum we should expect before we start beating our drums of war once more.
At the end of the day, you'll always have people on both sides - Stalin did nothing wrong and Stalin was literally worse than Hitler 90 million killed with his own hands, that sort of thing - and folks talking about NK operatives astroturfing in HN comments and everything else.
I think you're totally right, and this raw data is a great opportunity to actually get some facts and perspective on an otherwise opaque part of the world. Then we all get to have opinions and have those opinions confirmed, which will be nice.
You'll always find some people who say anything, but having people say them doesn't make those assertions any more factual. Saying the Earth is flat or that Stalin did nothing wrong is false (without getting into debates about the meaning of "wrong"), even if people say it, no matter how many people say it. Saying the NK regime is not a brutal, murderous dictatorship, or suggesting that it is questionable or that there is some ambiguity in the responsibility of the perpetrators, is deceit.
I'd say that at this point there are a lot more than reports, there are actual concentration camps, as well as brutal oppression, starvation at times, and many more horrors.
edit:
Wikipedia suggests e.g. this: http://www.libertyinnorthkorea.org/ (via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_in_North_Korea, via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#In...) as a charity rescuing NK defectors hiding in China into US. That said, can one anyhow confirm if they do what they advertise? Still, I plan to try donating regularly to them anyway now (which may be cumbersome without a credit card), unless I manage to find something looking even better anyhow.
Another option from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_Strategy_Center ("sent over (...) 400 radio sets (...) into North Korea" -- I recall people living under communist regime in the past as mentioning that radio is important for giving a glimpse of a different, better world; also from "NKSC's History": "While [the future founder of NKSC] Kang Cheol Hwan lived in North Korea he remembers being influenced by foreign South Korean radio broadcasts which helped him decide to defect from the country after having lived 10 years in the Yodok Political Prison Camp.")
Also, I'm not from US.
1) Make sure as many people know about it as possible, which creates political pressure on your government.
2) Make sure your government knows that it's a priority for you.
3) Contact Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch; they probably can tell you much more about what you can do.
In my very humble opinion, I think the key is the Chinese public. If they pressure their government, it may be a hassle the Communist dictators decide that they don't need.
I knew it was probably pretty bad, but I did not know exactly how bad. There's no way they could all starve and have no internet, right? That seemed like one of the exaggerations to me. But this article implies (and what develops will likely prove) that there are in fact many serious human rights violations going on in that country though, so this helps a lot.
Edit: I understand why this could be seen as ignorance, so I understand the downvotes. However, I want to clarify that my comment is more about the impact that the media has, at least on me, in actually reducing the perceived "terribleness" of North Korea. Perhaps I am just too easily influenced and uninformed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10...
It's also true that every human lies, and people in every sphere of life have admitted to it. As I posted elsewhere (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821740) it's interesting that so many posts are trying to cast doubt on defectors, all using the same arguments.
Wow, now you're straight in the face advancing a pure and explicit strawman; he didn't at any point say he's against seeing the data. Just - wow.
I'm sure the USSR and US did create super bio weapons during the cold war. The claim isn't strange to me, the link is however.
The death rate for the strain they developed was estimated from animal studies - not even the soviets were bad enough to test this directly on humans.
There are really shocking things that go on in North Korea right now. Massive prisons to hold political prisoners and their families, executions by all kinds of devices, starvation of the population on a wholesale level and it won't surprise me to find they are also doing human experiments.
EDIT: Rather than repeating myself, there's more in my post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821740
Right now NK has nuclear weapons with warheads capable of reaching at least Japan and a Chinese ally which is meant to come to NK's aid if they get attacked.
It could literally start world war 3 if we just attacked NK tomorrow without getting the Chinese and Russians aboard.
I think a lot of Western countries would love to liberate NK, oil or not. But the politics of the situation make that tricky to say the least.
ISIS has and continues to do this [2].
[1]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/north-korean-de...
WARNING: GRAPHIC[2]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=edd_1423009069 WARNING: GRAPHIC
I've been to the China/North Korea border for a few days, and it was scary. But honestly, in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanji area just inside of China, I ate the best bibbimbap I've ever had, and for only 5元! "Immature fern fronds baby! Shakin' that 'bap..." Far better than Seoul.
To riff on the same theme, IIRC early North Korean defectors complained about South Korean food lacking buckwheat noodles. That has since been rectified.