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Comment by noreasonw | Hacker News Reader

The problem I see with any basic income scheme is that lazy people can get in the trap to become trapped in a lazy for ever state. Basic income should be accompanied with a policy to motivate people to develop their capabilities and enhance their self confidence. Once you are trapped in the basic income scheme and automation replaces all the low skilled jobs, lazy people can see themselves as completely disposable objects, so you need a great self-confidence and a change of mentality to change from a lazy people to a do it person.

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> lazy people can see themselves as completely disposable objects

Many people who are in long term unemployment already feel that way. (I think that's my case.)

There is no political motivation to just take unemployed people and just create businesses and do something with them, so I think it's a problem of entrepreneurship. It should be a huge opportunity, but it's not getting done for a simple reason, people consider lazy people to be subhuman moocher and they don't want to deal with them. It is plain stigmatization. People pity the unemployed, but they don't want to help them eitherway.

The thing about the UBI, is that it simplifies the process of welfare, but it also stimulates consumption, which in turn boosts the economy.

> lazy people can get in the trap to become trapped in a lazy for ever state

Do you have any evidence for the existence of these lazy people, and in any significant number? The literature and actual experiments done with basic income shows that people are not lazy, but rather they lack opportunities, or a safety net for small risks, or any of a number of other things.

Thanks for asking for real data about this. I was only giving my very humble opinion about what could happen, I would like to know some links to literature and actual experiments with basic income. I think that laziness is learned and you need to be kicked strongly to move in a doers direction. In a weak economy with no expectations for people to progress laziness and hopeless bloom, if basic income is a step in the right direction it should be along with a way to foster better expectations. Your are not in an asylum for live.

Here are two articles that gave me insight: http://mondediplo.com/2013/05/04income and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINCOME

Basically, people who were working out of desperation worked less, otherwise people used the money to ensure food safety, invest in businesses or improving their lives.

I really don't think "lazy" is a valuable label. It tends to be applied when there are underlying causes for the supposed "laziness". When those causes are repaired the laziness tends to go away. For example: illness, precarity, hopelessness (as you mentioned), a lack of opportunities. I'd suggest doing away with the overly simplistic "lazy" and using more accurate words which express the underlying causes.

You can't change people with a formula. There's a lot of lazy people working now today, to the detriment of society and the economy. Think of the opportunities though, a bunch of nerds could move up to the countryside and work on nuclear fusion and cure for cancer instead of having to apply at a bank or some ladder-climbing corporate gig.

I think that if you are able to do deep research in nuclear fusion or a cure for cancer you should also be able to find the way of earning a good salary under any circumstances and at the same time finding a way of allocating time for your real passion. Great people become greater under difficult circumstances. I don't think basic income should make a real difference in that. You can't change people with a formula but I think there is a lot you can do to motivate and coach people, opium is not a solution. Could be basic income the opium for the people?

"I think that if you are able to do deep research in nuclear fusion or a cure for cancer you should also be able to find the way of earning a good salary under any circumstances and at the same time finding a way of allocating time for your real passion."

In theory, sure. But in reality, most jobs suck. Even if you are of that level, odds are the job you'll get is going to be emotionally or mentally draining, and at the end of the day, you'll really just want to relax.

We already provide public schooling to develop basic skills. But, many adults aren't capable of being productive, regardless of motivation. And even absolutely low-skill jobs are being automated out, like McDonalds cashiers being replaced by machines.

Not everyone is smart enough to be productive in a competitive society.

The basic income is going to prevent larger potential problems with them, like crime or health costs or decreasing property values or other social expenses, beyond their immediate income expense.

These people already cost you money. The basic income is the option where you pay them little now so you don't have to pay a lot for them later.

perhaps public schooling is more about you learning to pass some tests than to enhance your abilities. Many very intelligent people are so bored in school that they don't learn anything there. With basic income school should change to train teachers about coaching people and less about tests. I think there is a lot to do besides basic income, I am not against UBI but there are side effects that we need to address the sooner the better about it.

Set up a robot fighting league. Lots of people would want to participate.

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