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Comment by baakss | Hacker News Reader

In my lifetime, I think this is the social issue that has seen the most positive change.

As a kid, gay people were practically lepers.

Eleven Years ago, Dave Chappelle just outright said "gay sex is just gross, sorry it just is", and it was considered funny and acceptable. (Not harping on him specifically, just pointing out what it was like in 2004)

Seven years ago prop 8 passed, if barely with some caveats about lack of understanding.

And now? SCOTUS upholds gay marriage and it's socially reprehensible to mock homosexuality. It's a strange and very positive feeling watching a country's world view shift like this.

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You can't just pull a quote like that out of context. Chappelle said the "gay sex is gross" thing twice, once was in the black bush character (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoDpghAaXT4) and the other was when he had a white girl sing his thoughts:

"Gay sex is gross; sorry, I just think it is. (gets another card) Unless, of course, they're lesbians. (gets another card) I like lesbians. (gets another card) I like lesbians."

Which is super tame compared to a lot of the other things Chappelle said back then, or even Louis CK says nowadays.

Dave Chappelle is a comedian, they say stuff like that all the time, it's part of their job. If you are going to quote somebody (specially on these issues), I'd recommend not to quote a comedian.

I did think about that a bit. That's part of why I added the disclaimer. I included it more because I was watching it this weekend, saw that bit, and thought, "That would be a really unacceptable thing to say today, but back then it was considered funny." Edit: And you're right, comedians are on a different standard. Sorry, forgot to include that.

If you think that would be an unacceptable joke for a comedian to say today, you should watch the comedian Daniel Tosh's show Tosh.0 on Comedy Central for essentially 30 minutes of unacceptable humor.

And, in fairness, sex - gay or straight - is fundamentally pretty gross. Fun, but gross.

Quoting a comedian as a means of reflecting what's popular or at least socially acceptable is an appropriate and accurate way to say "at one point in recent history, it was socially acceptable to say demeaning things about gay people."

Michael Richards is a comedian, and made anti-Semitic remarks that resulted in a significant backlash. Again, looking back this is a good indication of someone saying something that was NOT popularly acceptable.

I think it all depends on the context. A comedy show is a comedy show. People are always looking for ways to feel offended.

In this case, the quote omitted the context of archetypes and specific people, namely George W. Bush, that Chapelle was very obviously satirizing. I say very obviously, because it wasn't a nuanced depiction: the skit was literally described as him being black Bush, and he was in a suit behind the POTUS podium, addressing the media.

Removing the context from that and hitting Chapelle for it is just a convenient target.

OT: It wasn't anti Semitic remarks that got Michael Richards in trouble. Michael Richards went on a massive tirade saying the N-word repeatedly after he felt that a black patron was being disrespectful.

I think the difference is that many people laughed with and applauded Dave Chappelle at the time while few (if anyone?) applauded Michael Richards.

Chappelle was commenting on a widely held belief. Richards, not so much.

I was just pointing out that it wasn't anti-semetic remarks that got Richards in trouble, it was disparaging remarks against blacks.

Edited the above to make that clearer.

Those lines were part of Chapelle's skits, they were clearly a part of a joke. Michael Richard's rants weren't a part of a show or routine, it was just him shouting at a patron. It's not because he made comments about blacks, jews, or any other race. It's because there wasn't any satire to his statements, and they seemed genuine (or it appeared that way at least).

It's still acceptable for a comedia to say to say demeaning things about gay, black, indians, asians, jews, whites, WASPs etc -- including rape victims, terrorism survivors, heroes, politicans, babies, etc.

That's what comedians do. Listen to Louis C.K (or anyone, really).

>Michael Richards is a comedian, and made anti-Semitic remarks that resulted in a significant backlash

Depends if he made them as part of a comedic routine or not. And actually even when part of a routine, depends if they were told as genuine preaching / ranting, or just for the comedic effect / exaggeration / black humor of it.

Any straight guy will, if given the choice, avoid scenes of man on man sex as much as possible. They might say it's "just not my thing" out of politeness or tact but watch what they do. When Chapelle said it it was funny because everyone watching can relate and it's a tension reliever to hear what you've been bottling up is actually true. Much comedy works this way.

I dunno, I'm a straight guy and it doesn't bother me. It used to but one day I realized it was just socially instilled gay panic.

Interesting concept, that sexual orientation is something we believe is ingrained, but things we find sexually repulsive are fluid and subject to change.

Well I don't think there is such a thing as sexual repulsion.

Your reasoning is yours alone and the anecdote can be easily hand-waved away: perhaps you're bisexual or lean more heavily towards homosexuality than most heterosexuals, thus find it less repulsive.

As for not believing in sexual repulsion - is this in regards to gender or in general?

I don't think there's sexual repulsion. Either you are repulsed by something or you are not, whether it's sexual has nothing to do with it. And what we are repulsed by is often conditioned

And no, I am not bisexual.

So how do you define the word "turnoff"? Or the phrase "mood killer".

There are things that I'm not repulsed by in anything but a sexual context. So I disagree with you on that merit alone.

Also I was referring to the Kinsey Scale. You can be "leaning towards homosexuality" without actually desiring to have sex with the same sex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

I think what you're talking about is very different from what my original comments parent talked about, though. Sure, you can have turn-offs. Although what society finds unattractive is also hugely based on culture, just like what it finds attractive.

> Any straight guy will

A small change makes your sentence more truthy: "Many straight guys will".

This isn't just a quibble. Public safety gave up using "gay men" because so many men do not identify as gay but do have sex with men. Thus, MSM is now used instead.

There are always exceptions so I don't fee the need to explicitly call that out. But I do submit that it's more like most than many.

Can you clarify how your second paragraph is connected to the first?

You start with the mental model of sexuality of three seperate and distinct groups - straight, bi, and gay. You then use that mental model to make a statement "any straight guy will avoid". But because your mental model is wrong that statement is also wrong.

You have absolutely nothing to support your statement apart from your own gut feeling.

Oh right. The whole everyone is a little bit gay thing.

>Eleven Years ago, Dave Chappelle just outright said "gay sex is just gross, sorry it just is", and it was considered funny and acceptable. (Not harping on him specifically, just pointing out what it was like in 2004)

iirc the bit you're referring to was how saying outrageous things is viewed as acceptable when a white woman does it.

In the black Bush piece he said 'and no gays settling down!' to poke fun at the GOP.

DADT was in 1994 IIRC? This idea that gay people were lepers 10 years ago is false, 21 years ago the military was already doing everything it could to put off the pressure of allowing gays in the military (and DADT was their compromise).

This is a generational thing, this latest is but 1 victory in a long procession of victories. To pretend otherwise is balderdash.

I still think that gay (two men) sex us gross... or any sex with a man. Which is why I don't engage in it, but I'm pretty grateful that about 50% of the inhabitants of Earth enjoys it!

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