Seen that job listing for a while, its no coincidence
wsj.com
wsj.com
A couple of anecdotes:
I was able to hire an outstanding candidate simply because I got them through the process and extended them an offer. Our competition was a reasonably high-profile company in the area. In the end he joined us because after more than a week, the other company was unable to execute their paperwork to get an offer generated.
More recently, I saw a very big name West Coast company (think Google/Facebook/Uber) lose out on a great person because they had a third party do a reference check. In the time it took for that check to happen, the job seeker had lots of time to re-consider the offer and instead ended up working for a smaller company on the East Coast which kept in touch and was able to move blindingly fast.
I'm mostly interested in the length of time from first contact->first day on the job, whether you think that is a reasonable amount of time, and the rough size of the company (or the name, but I understand people not wanting to share that)
If I want to work at a big company, I would only consider small companies if the big ones don't want me and not if the big ones just want me a month later.
If you only want to work at a big company, you probably don't interview with the smaller company in the first place.
Edit: There's probably a book waiting to be written on the dodgy tactics of recruitment firms. Mind you, I became a bit less harsh on individual recruiters when I was in an office that shared a floor of a building with a recruitment firm and got to see how they treated their staff. They were too cheap to hire meeting rooms when they were doing staff reviews so we regularly had people getting complete bollockings in the shared kitchen area - which isn't much fun to witness and a pretty ghastly way to treat your own staff.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rip-off-Scandalous-Management-Consul...
I'd like to read an equivalent for recruiters and as more people encounter recruiters than management consultants I expect the audience would be much larger!
Many companies have more or less phantom job listings on their websites and the free boards because whilst they haven't got any positions that need filling, they can afford to create role(s) for the right candidates. And as you've said, some probably can't afford that yet but at least they look like they're growing and get the resumes of people interested in what they might be able to offer in future.
Larger companies often have job ads up for positions they expect to fill internally, because policy requires they advertise it externally.
Perhaps too many people are now wise to this? And so recruitment firms have had to arrange for articles (such as this one) to muddy the waters ;)
I'm finally scheduled for an interview next week. But really, 60 days before even interviewing a candidate they already have experience with? I'm surprised they even manage to hire people before they are extended another offer. But then again, this is not programming.
Oftentimes, they're lazy (outsourcing most of their job to expensive recruiters and agencies), obstructive (creating all manner of stupid, bureaucratic, red-tape hoops you have to jump through before they'll approve whatever it is you're trying to do), and add zero value to the actual process of recruiting an employee.
My hat of HR know no limit.
Some places where I've worked at, if you fail to hire (say you select a candidate and they get a better offer), you have to start all over at square 1. Square 1 being justifying to HR why you need the position (a multi-week process).
When asked about whether you are interviewing elsewhere, what should I answer? Be vague and 1 or 2 other places? Or name specific companies/roles? What should I say when they ask what your first choice would be if you were extended similar offers at all these places (it also seems to be a standard question)?
Sorry for being off-topic. I've read Patrick Mackenzie's Salary Negotiation advice post 3x now, and it left me wondering about the above.
I've seen people take both approaches. I like to be open to avoid coming off as antagonistic, but HR folks do sometimes talk to each other across companies and this can potentially harm you if you're not careful.
>What should I say when they ask what your first choice would be if you were extended similar offers at all these places (it also seems to be a standard question)?
I avoid being cornered into making a promise, but I always make it clear that I'm very excited to work for their company. Always. HR people are adept at gauging interest and don't want to be used by applicants. They don't want to hire people who aren't excited about the job. They know you will negotiate when the time comes.
I think they base part of their scheduling on how many similar companies are trying to hire you.
Eighteen months later, after she'd been through two jobs and emigrated, they sent her a letter expressing interest.
I'm not sure what things are like where you are, but I have recently gone through a hiring cycle for an engineer and it honestly took this long to gather resumes that were worth pursuing.
EDIT: Can someone explain the negative votes? OP was right if the issue was: we can't find people, rather than: we're going to make the process even more rigorous and time consuming. Maybe increasing wages will draw more qualified applicants which will qualify for the tests faster?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10949825/Employers-r...
I never considered that the average interview process is getting longer.
It's interesting to see this possible view. We might be better off posting duplicates to make this nuance more obvious.
If your company is actually trying to fill multiple identical positions, it's probably best to make that clear somehow - that they're growing rapidly and the listing isn't for a specific position so much as that they're always open to hiring anybody who has the right qualifications.
Also: > Companies are in-undated with applications and really can't separate the wheat from the chaff. They have thousands of resumes for one or two job openings because its so easy now to apply online and click submit. Perversely the harder they make it to apply online, causes those most in need of a job to jump through hoops to fill out a complete application
Tried hiring help on a local jobs board I was swamped and astounded with volume and eagerness of the responses. Ended up going with someone who was recommended by a friend as I didn't have the resources to process and filter the applications
I like to give at least 3 weeks notice simply because it usually takes that long to transfer all my projects and responsibilities. That only leaves 6 days for the active screening and interviewing process.
The article seems to be covering very general employment and job statistics so most likely the 27 day average vacancy is quite high for service and retail positions and fairly low for tech positions.
/possible sarcasm
It's interesting, because I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of places over the years and I've never seen drugs as a problem that impedes workplace attendance / performance. Alcohol / hangovers, sure - plenty of times - but they're not testing for that, right?
As i've moved up in job quality it has gone from "we will test you aggressively to see if you do drugs" to "why would we care about this?"
Practically it is very stupid because the heroin/meth/cocaine type drugs become undetectable within days while pot takes weeks.
It's a dumb US thing, basically.
That must be a new -- post 2007 -- thing, then.
I'm sure there are some ultraconservative companies that drug test everyone — including developers and senior managers — but those are few and far between in comparison.
Outside of the red tape domains, like banking and government, I've never been drug tested as a developer. The idea that a low skill worker is more likely to be on drugs is classism. Low skill workers really get no autonomy. They are drug tested, have to clock in and out, and even have monitored lunch/bathroom breaks. It's kind of disgusting to think about.
Incidentally, it's quite awkward if you're currently employed when you get the new offer - as I was. The lab that collected the urine sample opened early in the morning for "regular" work but only accepted drug test samples from 10 AM to 3 PM on weekdays.
EDIT: parentheses content.
As far as I know companies use piss tests, which don't detect most hard drugs after a few days. They detect pot for weeks. Hair tests will detect anything forever. They are more expensive but if companies actually cared about not hiring people who do hard drugs they would have to do them.
The only purpose I can see for it is that it is a legal leash they can tie to the employee to exert control on their lives. There's lots of other things companies would like to be able to fire you for, but they're either illegal or impossible to detect. Drug testing is one they're allowed to do.
I can understand drug testing people if they cause an accident, are intoxicated at work, etc. but to do it as a matter of course for employment is just to show you who's boss.
a) stop/pass the test
b) find somewhere that doesn't care
My company puts a common clause in the offer letter that says "this offer is contingent upon your successful completion of a drug screening, confirmation of your references, and the verification of your education and work history".
For example - if you work for a company that provides contract services to healthcare / hospital / gov / dod companies or agencies - you will likely be required to take a drug screen. and this is done prior to your offer being officially accepted on their end.
I used to work for a company that would regularly send employees into refineries and chemical plants that we were consulting for. They required anyone who would go on-site to submit to drug tests, even though they weren't directly employed by the plant operator. So thanks to their requirement, most of our company had to be drug tested routinely.
I do wonder if any of these insurance companies have ever actually proven that drug tests make the plant safer. I suppose it makes more sense when you consider that it's an environment where a routine screw-up could easily cause catastrophic destruction. But do they know for sure, or are they just assuming or protecting themselves from lawsuits or something?
People who, for example, smoke marijuana, will fail a drug test. Will they miss work because they're hungover from a Big Weekend? No, mostly not. Will some straight arrow call in sick because he or she got sick on Sunday evening? Yes. We know this. But to avoid having to cope with ambiguity or grey areas or hard decisions, we just let a "drug" test do it all.
It is also noteworthy, that drug-tests are not as precise as people might think. Most of them look for traces of metabolic byproducts of a substance, not the substance itself.
There are some (legal) medications, wich can indicate optium- and methamphetamine-addiction.
Does it make sense? Often it makes none at all.
Screening for recreational drug markers doesn't mean I'm judging their morals, but I'm zeroing out my risk factors.
What I've seen is that most companies don't care about those. They only care about illegal drugs. Even legal prescriptions that could have nasty effects are not judged harshly.
In short, there are more defensible reasons to drug test than what I listed, but they don't show up often in practice.
Funny they ended with this. It makes some sense. The inverse is true too (for a truck driver, one can do more investigation to see if she has a safe & trustworthy background for instance) but certainly it takes more work to hire a developer than a retail salesperson.
Maybe they should realize their reqs for that position, or their actual interview process is a little disconnected from who they are...?