Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge
reuters.com
reuters.com
Should everybody just pick the money and run? Without knowing the details of the case and the reasoning of the people, it also could be possible that this woman was not looking for the money, but righteousness.
And no, I am not convinced (without knowing any details), that because the judgement was against her, that this is justness. (I have seen so many unjust judgments in my own country that where based on the fact, that one side had the better lawyers or better experts they hired)
Jurisdiction in human hands can always be an approximation of justness.
Some things just go beyond figures ...
.. or, 2.7m = righteousness
Still, without knowing the details, it is difficult to judge over a persons motives.
I am not a native speaker, so I might have been misunderstood ...??
No, you weren't. In the U.S. the primary way to get redress in these kinds of situations is a lawsuit with a concrete financial reward. And to some people, the seeking of a financial reward implies only the desire for the financial reward.So by that logic: by virtue of seeking redress you're only out for some cold hard cash. And what easier reason is there to decide to not believe a person's claims?
Anyone care to explain something that I might be missing?
Perhaps her primary concern isn't a cash payout.And for the record: Consider this statement as me playing the race card.
But look: I wasn't on the jury, and I haven't reviewed the court records, and like everyone else here I'm playing armchair quarterback.
$2.7 million is the exact amount that her husband owes in legal
fees regarding that ponzi scheme he supposedly ran.
So, on one hand that sounds suspicious. On the other, I know how quickly the Internet (flash) mob is to pick up torches and pitchforks.At the end of the day, what are we to do? Trust juries as the final arbiter, when we know that they're not infallible? Trust reddit - same, if not more? Has her husband been convicted of running a Ponzi scheme - or is it merely "alleged"? Did literally none of EP's lawyers think, "You know... that number is too obvious. We should fudge it a little."?
Armchair quarterbacks. :)
[0]http://thelawdictionary.org/article/what-percentage-of-lawsu...
It's easy to say she should have settled in hindsight but if she had won big we'd be saying KP should have offered her more.
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/25617...
"We build networks and get in fights"
> because she is woman.
If you're going to credit an editor at the bottom, they should probably learn to edit something so simple that Word would've picked it up automatically.
It's actually by definition a link aggregate website.
Here's the link: http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch...
AMC or HBO or Netflix could make a pretty interesting TV show out of this.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1672...
From the defence:
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/25617...
--- Personal opinion below ----
Not necessarily relevant (I believe it is) but provides some more of a background is her husband (whom she married in 2007) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Fletcher.
Why it's relevant in my opinion? An old saying translates to something along the lines of "you are the sum of who support, live, work and play with", which I find tends to hold very true.
From what I've read, but haven't been able to look up sources (someone else might chip in here) - her demands for payment (settlements) have always equated to exactly or greater than the sums owed by both her and her husband to their respective creditors.
Edit: I believe she was discriminated against for not being a reliable/honest/good person to work with, not because of her gender.
2nd Edit: Having thought about it, I now agree with /u/obstinate below moreso - her husbands dealings have nothing to do with her. We only know of our partners doings from our partners themselves, so we can't truly be objective and tend to err on the side of trust and loyalty.
She felt as if she was discriminated against, so he likely supported her in her lawsuit. He's lost his business and a home, so of course she'll do what she can to support him.
I still reserve my personal opinion against both, as others will do from reading this against me. I'm leaving my original comment and edit for context.
Token paragraph at the end of page 13:
"Based on the Trustee’s investigation, the answer to the question of why FILB had no meaningful assets at the time of the bankruptcy filing is principally that the Funds were victims of a fraud defined by the extensive use of wildly inflated valuations, the existence of fictitious assets under management (“AUM”) numbers, the improper payment of excessive fees, the misuse of investor money, and efforts wrongly to deny the Louisiana Pension Funds a key benefit of their investment agreement – mandatory redemption of their investment under certain circumstances. The Funds were also victims of an environment where self-interest all too often trumped fiduciary obligations."
2) That is fundamental due dilligence for any fiduciary appointment.
3) A criminal conviction is un-neccessary to prove civil fraud in relation to (1,2).
(Those are legitimate issues/topics of dicsussion).
...she tried to extort money? ...she lost, and they weren't
doing anything wrong.
Sorry, sarcasm doesn't carry well over the Internet...Are you saying that because she lost that implies that she was engaging in extortion?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_%28attorney%27s_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_f...
From the Reuters report, it appears that Kleiner made an offer of judgment under section 998 of the California Code of Civil Procedure, [1] which provides in part:
<blockquote>
(c) (1) If an offer made by a defendant is not accepted and the plaintiff fails to obtain a more favorable judgment or award, the plaintiff shall not recover his or her postoffer costs and shall pay the defendant's costs from the time of the offer.
In addition, in any action or proceeding other than an eminent domain action, the court or arbitrator, in its discretion, may require the plaintiff to pay a reasonable sum to cover costs of the services of expert witnesses, who are not regular employees of any party, actually incurred and reasonably necessary in either, or both, preparation for trial or arbitration, or during trial or arbitration, of the case by the defendant.
</blockquote>
(Emphasis and extra paragraphing added)
"Costs," incidentally, means costs of court such as filing fees, court reporter charges, etc. [2] In this case, by statute (quoted above) the term also include expert witness fees. "Costs" usually does not include attorneys' fees.
[1] http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&gr...
What's the rational? I could see it as a way to try to prevent SLAPP type suits with quick settlements, but it seems like an awfully sharp double edged sword.
This is also seen in Rule 68 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Some states have similar rules but also provide for attorneys' fees. See the annotations at http://www.commondraft.org/#SettlementIncentiveClause (self-cite).
Correct.
> In other words, to be complained about/insulted/whatever.
No, that's not what that means. To catch heat or flak is angering / upsetting others due to your actions then being on the receiving of said anger. It has nothing to do with one sided insults.
I don't really know how much evidence is in any of those claims (I thought there was supposedly evidence, not zero, but I really don't care enough to bother looking anyway) as I never really wanted to talk or even fight about anything relating to Pao but I could see that changing the context for catching heat / flak if there is or isn't evidence.
Perhaps you didn't read my post clearly but I said nothing of the sort.
> If you think that women aren't treated badly on Reddit, go to /R/shitredditsays
I said the exact opposite; women are hit on pretty heavily in reddit. I don't see that as being treated well; it's obviously unwanted (at least in the vast, vast majority of the time).
I have no idea where you could get the idea that my post said or even implied anything but women being treated poorly on reddit...
Please take a look at my original comment as I did not say that. Women catch heat all the time. All I said was, in my experience, I rarely see it when compared to all of the sexual harassment they receive.
> To catch heat (without a cause)
I haven't seen this phrase used without a "cause"; isn't that just an insult? Can you even "catch heat" without doing anything?
I'm not sure why you're quoting that; it doesn't support your assertion. Rarely does not mean an absolute don't.
> I understand now that you were making a comparative statement, but at the time I believed you were making an absolute one.
Even if it was absolute I was certainly highlighting a problem with women being sexual harassed on Reddit which you still somehow took as me thinking it's desirable. Worst yet you never corrected your mistake within the editing window so my comment is being downvoted to hell and people probably think I'm supporting the sexual harassment of women.
It especially does not help the fact that her husband was at the helm of a massive scheme that defrauded untold amounts of public workers in regards to their pension
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Fletcher
http://nypost.com/2015/02/18/case-builds-against-former-ny-h...
Who you are friends with says alot about you. Who you are married to says much, much more.
And who hates a woman because of something her husband did? That is just gross, medieval thinking.
fortune.com/2012/10/25/ellen-pao-buddy-fletcher/
That to me screams that she's a big time financial schemer.
Additionally, folks on Reddit seem to believe that she coordinated with the previous CEO to take over the job so she'd have a CEO title going in to the lawsuit. Hence the sudden resignation of Yishan for no apparent reason.
There's other things, like refusing to negotiate salaries "because women do worse", which is really just an anti-employee action.
All this was before the banning of subreddits. I also don't find it credible that people dislike her because she's a woman. I don't know if the bits I read are true (they seem well presented, but many false things are), but if so, that's certainly enough reason regardless of gender.
Reddit's response is that it isn't "safe" and they want to make it that way. If you've been labeled as somebody who makes the site "unsafe" your actions are assumed to be those of an aggressor and an oppressor. If you're somebody trying to make the site "safe" even when you cross the line you're viewed as an oppressed person fighting back.
It's an intentionally uneven playing field and the people it's slanted against aren't happy about it.
http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch...