Apple WWDC15 Keynote Live Broadcast | Hacker News Reader

Apple WWDC15 Keynote Live Broadcast

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> Live streaming video requires Safari 6.0.5 or later on OS X v10.8.5 or later; Safari on iOS 6.0 or later. Streaming via Apple TV requires second- or third-generation Apple TV with software 6.2 or later.

Apple continues to refuse acknowledgment of the existence of a heterogeneous computing environment. Many people who do not have access to an Apple computer will not be able to watch the stream. Contrast with Google who stream their keynote on YouTube. So rather than being inclusive, the company is being exclusive.

Yet Tim Cook, with regards to diversity of employees, believes "It's the future of our company... I think the most diverse group will produce the best product, I firmly believe that."[1]

Does Tim Cook not see the irony of his posturing? How can he produce the best products if he and his employees are hired to reject the reality of the technology world around them and enforce isolation rather than encourage interoperability?

[1] http://mashable.com/2015/06/08/tim-cook-apple-diversity-wome...

Yeah this is depressing. I'm very interested in what Apple is doing, but I don't want it to be my driver.

I choose Windows and Android for various reasons (that I refuse to get into an argument here about), and so I'm completely unable to watch Apple's Keynote? Ridiculous.

You're able to watch it- just come back this after noon when the quicktime stream is posted. You're just not able to watch it live.

By definition, since you only have windows and android devices you're not an Apple developer, and not the target of WWDC.

Further, the technical reason behind this could be rectified by Google and Microsoft if they gave up their NIH stance regarding dynamic web video.

> not the target of WWDC

Someone that needs to come up with solutions that work across various operating systems, including iOS isn't a target of the developer conference?

Just because I don't personally own any Apple devices does not mean I don't ever do any Apple dev.

How can you do Apple dev without a device to test on?

Having a device to test on doesn't mean having a device to watch videos on. It could be in use for, you know, testing. Or it could be shared with other devs.

I'd rather watch on the PC that's plugged into my TV anyway and that's a Windows 8 box.

What about people who contribute to clang / llvm using linux as their primary platform?

Elsewhere in the thread [1], when someone did post the url to the livestream for people to view on non-apple devices, you said:

    This will give you a static stream, which means if your bandwidth dips or the demand spikes you may have problems.

    So don't complain if you have problems with it.

so, there seem to be technical issues with this "open" specification, that seems to be a hack atop m3us, if it requires a non-trivial amount of coding for it not behave like a 1998 copy of realplayer. Perhaps apple's spec is just crap.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9680220

You can watch the keynote. There's a stream address in source that you can copy to VLC on any platform.

Considering it's a developer conference and Apple developers must have Apple hardware it makes sense as a way to let the people who need in in but not have to pay for the infrastructure required for everyone else to view. It would be nice if they opened it to everyone but considering they're not in the video streaming business in the way Google is it would be a waste of resources.

Yeah, I mean - it's not like YouTube's Live Streaming platform is open to everyone.

Apple released an open protocol for dynamically scalable streaming that anyone could adopt. It is only with this protocol and the resulting increase in efficiency that they can deliver such a popular event at such volume. The number of people tuning in for WWDC is probably an order of magnitude more significant than Google io.

The choice is for technical reasons... if Google and others had embraced the technology, then Apple could stream to them.

Instead google and others have a Not Invented Here syndrome. Hell, Chrome which built its popularity on the back of Apple's open source Webkit (yeah yeah, webkit was built on top of an earlier open source framework, nothing wrong with open source) has instead decided to go its own way and forked things.

It's kinda silly to bash Apple like that.

Plus, remember the audience. This is a conference for Apple developers. If you're an Apple developer, surely you have an iPhone or iPad. How else do you test?

And if not, you can always watch the Quicktime / MP4 stream later.

> How else do you test?

More like: How else do you compile?

Pretty sure xcode cross compiles.

Apple is in the business of selling Apple hardware. Google is in the business of selling services across all hardware.

I don't find it surprising in the least that Apple requires you have an Apple device to watch their developer keynote.

Yes but when Microsoft pulls this kind of crap, they're demons. Apple is justified because what, they have prettier laptops for landing pages?

Microsoft is a convicted coercive monopolist. Apple is not. Does that clarify it for you?

Hm. While that's absolutely true, it probably seemed like more of a good zinger in 2000 than it does in 2015.

Some of us have long memories. Microsoft's ambitions for the longest time were to kill everyone else, not just be successful, but destroy everyone.

Say what you will about Apple, but they appear to be content to remain a niche player, focussing only on the top of the market, and don't seem to have any inherent need to wipe out open standards and destroying all their competitors.

Indeed. This is infuriating. Apple should make it easier for me, a non-customer, to see the promotion of their products - not harder.

With Apple it's basically: "if you're already in our ecosystem we love you. If you're not, we hate you".

Well, screw you, too, Apple!. I'll happily continue to live outside of your ecosystem then.

Just use vlc.

Apples "streaming" is just 10 second chunks of video shunted across a m3u playlist. Its not exactly proprietary in that regard.

Also its a developer conference, what are you hoping to see in the live stream that makes you absolutely need to watch it or just abandon using apple products all together? Honestly I can't tell if this is a joke or not anymore on the internet. But I generally don't go into the google dev threads and just gripe about google, ditto microsoft.

Why the hell do we get this much uninformed junk comments on apple threads? Its getting to the point that I think most "social site junk" is really not worth the bother with all the same boring never going to change comments every time.

Not to defend Apple, but Google owns YouTube so it's not a stretch for Google to use YouTube. Not sure why Apple doesn't target a larger audience. It's free publicity.

> Many people who do not have access to an Apple computer will not be able to watch the stream.

Which they can if they find the stream address and put it in VLC. It's just HTTP live streaming[0], has been for a few years now. Recent Android device ought be able to understand it as well.

> Contrast with Google who stream their keynote on YouTube. So rather than being inclusive, the company is being exclusive.

Ah yes, the inclusivity of Google putting livestreams on their property, contrasted with the exclusivity of Apple putting livestreams on their property.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming little more than a bunch of video snippets (TS files) linked by a streamed m3u8.

Google live streams using Flash and doesn't support the open standard HTTP Live Streaming spec. So, it's really a bit weird. Apple is more open in this case, but not many things support the open standard (specifically: Chrome).

The Google I/O livestream via YouTube worked just fine in HTML5 for me. Last year too.

Oh, odd. Are you manually opted into the "HTML5 YouTube" version (is that still even an option or just the default for everybody now)? I had to manually "click to enable Flash plugin" to watch their I/O stream a few weeks ago in Chrome.

And, last I checked, Chrome doesn't support HTTP Live Streaming, so if you are using Chrome and getting live video without a pulgin, I'm not sure how it works?

Extra note: Chrome on Android does support, but Chrome-the-desktop-browser does not support HTTP Live Streaming. Computers are awful.

Javascript implementing MPEG-DASH: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=109652#c...

To be fair, HLS is not an open standard. Apple has submitted it as an informational Internet Draft, but hasn't taken any further steps towards RFC status and doesn't encourage (or maybe even take) contribution.

Huh? Flash has supported HLS since around 2011, if memory serves.

Are we really to the point where a company explicitly stating that you need their hardware/software to view a stream, and requiring steps that normal people would be completely unaware of to circumvent is considered "equivalent" to Google using their system which can be viewed from any computer with zero additional work?

Well we're apparently to the point where a company can only be open if they use the proprietary broadcast platform of their biggest rival, so we're way past the stupid event horizon either way.

It's just a service. If YouTube live streaming is the best way to reach out to an audience, why not?

I'm sure Apple employees use Google.com to search the internet every single day, which creates revenue for Google...

Or are services from Google.com banned on the Apple campus? Does anybody know if this happens?

Maybe I missed something but I had to switch my user agent to an ios device just to get the stream url.

I can't fault them too much because people who are interested in this conference are iOs devs who would presumably need to have a Mac, but i don't appreciate being locked out.

Apple use HTTP Live Streaming (HLS) to broadcast live events. This is an entirely open standard. Indeed, it's super-simple to implement and use. AFAIK they submitted it as an Internet Draft, but I'm not sure it's gone anywhere.

HTTP Live Streaming is supported by more than just Apple devices – it'll work with recent Android devices too, and with VLC / other media players. I wouldn't expect Apple to certify the compatibility of the stream with other devices – sure, it might work, but would you expect them to explain the full gamut of software which might potentially be able to view the stream?

People get awfully worked up about this sort of thing without taking a small step back and thinking about it for a minute. This is not a horrible "let's ignore non-Apple users" conspiracy. It's just explaining the system requirements that Apple is targeting to the expected audience – basically all of whom will be using an Apple device.

Taken from a phone with 100% support for HLS

http://www.imgur.com/VvAhSEF.png

Here you go: http://p.events-delivery.apple.com.edgesuite.net/15pijbnaefv...

Since I imagine it's difficult to determine which devices support HLS in-browser, I guess they don't show the video.

It's trivially easy to detect in-browser (with mediaElement.canPlayType()). Modernizr detects HLS support out of the box.

uh huh.

and then you try to fullscreen on android and it breaks because android.

It's not like a conference like this could be used as a big long commercial to convince developers (or even consumers) to switch over. Instead it looks like their idea is to target those whom are already Apple customers to remain Apple customers. Seems a waste from that perspective. Unless they really are having a hard time with retention.

It's the web. Nobody certifies compatibility with all possible devices here.

It's not hard:

1. Don't outright block all non-Safari browsers out of arrogance.

2. When the stream fails, add to the compat message "…or any other browser that supports HTTP Live Streaming". Might even link to a list like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming#Supported_p...

Getting 2-3 other devices to test on shouldn't be too hard for one of the richest companies in the world.

I too am disgusted that Tim Cook's appreciation of social justice is not so intersectional as to include web browsers.

Inclusivity when it fits their narrative.

Hardware/OS aside, it's amazing to see a high-profile webpage in 2015 merrily proclaiming itself to only work in only one browser. It's even more amazing to see some replies on HN defending it.

  New York: 1 p.m. EDT
  Chicago: 12 p.m. CDT
  Honolulu: 7 a.m. HST
  London: 6 p.m. BST
  Paris: 7 p.m. CEST
  Moscow: 9 p.m. MSK
  Mumbai: 10:30 p.m. IST
  Beijing: 1 a.m. CST
  Seoul: 2 a.m. KST
  Sydney: 3 a.m. AEST

Thanks. You wonder why Apple still do:

'Our live broadcast begins at 10 a.m. PDT.'

Rather than detecting my location and showing me the local time.

Because for Apple, Cupertino is the center of the universe, and they don't try to hide it. That's their time zone and that's all they really care about.

They should have named their new font Cupertino.

Apple tends to reuse trademarks. San Francisco was the name of a "wacky" ransom note looking font on old Macs. Likewise, "SuperDrive" was repurposed for both the 1.4 MB floppy drive and the CD/DVD-R/RW/+R optical disc drive they used to ship.

The AppleTV app is smart enough to give the local time, interestingly enough.

VLC Stream:

http://p.events-delivery.apple.com.edgesuite.net/15pijbnaefv...

This will give you a static stream, which means if your bandwidth dips or the demand spikes you may have problems.

So don't complain if you have problems with it.

Interesting, thanks.

Any idea how to get a dynamic stream in VLC?

VLC is just horrible with HLS streams unfortunately.

The app I run on my jailbroken PS3 (Movian) is actually way more capable.

Watch the WWDC from Windows on Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/thehogbit

It's interesting how they've been shifting the tone of the keynotes since Jobs died. They're trying to be a bit more playful and especially this keynote has been full of jokes.

To some extent, I like how they're explicitly not trying to hold on to Jobs' way of doing things. On the other hand, they're dangerously close in 'dad trying to be cool' territory. I think this is the first keynote where I got that vibe, especially when they got Drake on stage.

Anyone have a good theory as to why they're changing the tone of the keynotes? Or am I seeing something that isn't there?

Oh, it's that time of the year again, where I need to type "Safari" in to the Spotlight Search.

For anyone wanting to watch this on Windows or Android, check out this article to find out how:

http://9to5mac.com/2015/06/02/apple-wwdc-windows-android-liv...

Interesting that apple.com redirects on Safari. It straight up auto-plays WWDC.

This WWDC is the most underwhelming one evah!!!!

Seriously, though, I'm pretty excited. Each year is the worst ever-- kinda like SXSW these days-- to some people. I don't understand where they are coming from. Sure, some years are more fundamental than others... but Apple always has one great thing to announce.

I happened to be there, and in the audience not too far from Steve when he came out and started speaking while a coffin rose up from beneath the stage. Then he opened the coffin and placed a Mac OS 9 box in the Coffin. It was wonderful. (And I was so happy because, unlike the 1980s, I was no longer interested in classic Mac OS.)

My last regular WWDC was in 2003, and I remember being really impressed that they gave out Leather Jackets (thought that was probable 2001, now that I think about it.) Nothing like communing with the mac faithful once a year- back when being a mac developer meant having trouble finding jobs where you actually got to do mac development.

Seriously, I got hired more than once to work on a mac product, only to be shifted over to windows soon after. Consequently, I just stopped learning windows so they wouldn't think I could do it and what I did know became out of date... so I ended up working on Linux instead! But Linux is fine by me.

Once the videos started coming out regularly, it didn't make much sense to go to San Francisco for a week-- $1500 for the conference, $2,500 more all in for hotel and airfare and all that-- a $600 set of DVDs is a much better deal.

But I did go back in 2008 so my partner (we started an iOS development shop) could get the experience and get a first hand education in the just released "iPhone SDK".

One thing that's interesting-- there has been no real rumor about what's going to be released.

I haven't a clue.

And I love it.

Apple's at their best when they surprise. The amount of surprise may not reach some people's expectations...

But this day is more significant to me (as a graybeard adult) than christmas probably ever was.

So, Happy WWDC Keynote Day!

Rest in Peace, Steve!

> Then he opened the coffin and placed a Mac OS 9 box in the coffin.

video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl7xQ8i3fc0

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