A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself | Hacker News Reader

A beauty contest winner making Japan look at itself

bbc.co.uk

72 pointsRobAley57 comments

There are a few things to keep in mind:

1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people.

2) The critics of Miyamoto are an extreme, vocal minority on Twitter and 2chan.

3) Although Japanese contestants often perform well at the international level, beauty pageants of this sort do not receive much attention within the country regardless of the contestant.

4) "Hafu" is a Japanese word derived from the English "half". It is used to refer to biracial people, but there is no connotation that they are "half" a person. I cannot understand the logic of the author who says that the word sounds derogatory in English -- it's a Japanese word, after all, and is not derogatory in Japanese.

The author uses point (2) as well as his short personal experience in Japan to make broad statements to the effect that Japanese people in general do not accept those whose appearance differs from their own. Japan makes an easy target in this regard because of the well-known (outside Japan, at least) concept of Nihonjinron, as well as the persisting sense that Japan is an isolated country where outsiders will never be accepted into the "in group". Due to this, there is an expectation (particularly in foreign media) that Japanese are racist, and any proof, even that of an extreme minority on Twitter, is taken as evidence in support of this.

Of course, living in Japan, I remember hearing similar broad statements about racism in the United States concerning the backlash against electing a black president in 2008.

The real lesson here is that we should not be basing our impressions of an entire society on a vocal minority, no matter how much their opinions conform to our expectations.

On point 4, I'd wonder that it's because the author is British. There's a whole nervousness about referring to anyone using race as a differentiator (lest you be considered racist?). To the point where someone will describe someone else by imaginative means even when 'the black guy with glasses' would actually be the most succinct way.

Yes, let's forget about all the nightclubs I couldn't go into, being physically barred by guards outside holding their crossed arms, saying "gaijin dame!".

Let's forget about the complete lack of upward mobility in any office I worked in.

Let's forget about the neighbors who completely shunned me until it was my turn as the block representative, at which point they criticized my lack of understanding of the bureaucracy.

Let's forget about the countless times people would cross to the other side of the street as soon as they saw me coming.

I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian. They have it the worst.

Now, I had lots of nice experiences there, especially in the countryside where people are a lot friendlier, but by no means can you say that racism does not permeate their entire society.

Racism of xenophobia? Do you know why they behave this way? I this because they think they are superior, or because they believe that no good can come from aliens? Or because the way they generally behave is embarrassing and unpleasant to them?

It's actually fairly similar to the racism I noticed when I moved to America, although in the USA, in many ways it's more subtle (it would be rare indeed to see someone physically block entrance to a business saying "no blacks allowed!"). Although in Japan, they don't use their police force to repress other groups like here (at least, not that I noticed).

I'm of the opinion that it's a mix of various insecurities, fear of displacement (in terms of power), and stereotypes based on past high-profile interactions that have percolated through the local culture. For example, there is a segment of expats in Japan who, being largely transient, pay no heed to their impact on the local culture, and in more extreme cases, take to actively antagonizing them (trolling or bullying in various forms). I would expect episodes like this to stick more firmly in the local memory than the myriad well-behaved individuals.

That's not to say that I rule out the possibility of a fragile ego and a desire to feel superior. Those tend to go hand-in-hand with any form of tribalism.

Strange how much our experiences differ.

People in the countryside were far more 'racist' to me. I went to parts of the country where they rarely, if ever, see an 'outsider'. I would be stared at by wide-eyed children and shocked elders alike. I would be pointed at and noticed because I was different. In the city, I experienced none of this. I put 'racist' in quotes because, although I felt like an attraction, it wasn't a bad or biased opinion of me. It was simply "That's a rare sight! Look over there, a foreigner!"

"Gaijin" don't tend to know social norms. That's a fact. Some do, most don't. It's easier to ban them all then have to kick out 95% of them. They cause problems because of said lack of knowledge of social norms. Why deal with problems? It might lose you customers. It's much easier to ban any and all foreigners.

Same reason you can't go to many bathhouses if you have a tattoo. Having a tattoo is seen as being part of the Yakuza and Yakuza are nothing but trouble. So instead of kicking out Yakuza, they don't allow people with tattoos. Are you Yakuza because you have a tattoo? Of course not. It's just easier to ban tattoos preemptively to prevent problems.

Yeah, my experience was similar in the countryside. But I don't consider being regarded as a curiosity as racism. They had no real preconceived notions as to how I would behave, and so our interactions were always cordial (though it helped that I was familiar with Japanese customs). I'd get invited to the local izakaya and we'd have a grand old time shooting the shit over sports, politics, etc. They'd want to know what I thought about pretty much everything (as would be expected when someone from an area you'd never seen before comes to town).

If your Japanese is near-perfect you can tell them to let you enter the "no foreigners" nightclubs and bars claiming you were born and raised in Japan. Just pick a place as your hometown.

If it were for racist reasons, they wouldn't let you enter simply because you don't "look Japanese".

Not to say the issue doesn't exist at all. Just that it isn't prevalent. If it didn't exist, there wouldn't be this comedy sketch about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80

Although the scenario I experienced was that the waitress asked my Japanese friend what I wanted to order rather than asking me. Assuming I didn't speak Japanese.

At most places I ordered food at - they would ask me what I wanted directly. So I wouldn't say it's a common experience either. Just that it does happen and it's because few foreigners speak Japanese! It's a habitual thing, not a racist thing. It happened more in the touristy parts of Tokyo than anywhere else (even in the touristy parts of Kyoto!)

>claiming you were born and raised in Japan. Just pick a place as your hometown.

I can't say I have not considered this, but it requires "faking" yourself, even for just a minute. It also demands that you have a high degree of Japanese language.

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to expect people who do not look as though they know the language in a virtually homogeneous society to not know the language. I've heard that the people who encounter this "get around" it by demonstrating that they do know at least something.

I read a blog post once that language is one of the biggest barriers; seriously dedicating one's time to learning the language is something that many, many non-native speakers simply miss out on - and, in some cases, go onto assume that this response is because of xenophobia or racism.

I haven't been in Japan long enough to give my own anecdotal experience, though.

There's definitely xenophobia in Japan, and a lot of stereotyping, etc, and I'm not dismissing your experience, but:

I've never been denied entry to a nightclub or any decent establishment (kyabakuras don't count).

I've never noticed people crossing to the other side of the street because of me.

> I just thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't Brazilian.

I've heard that before but I've never experienced it. I'm Brazilian, but since I don't usually go around wearing Brazil's football jersey, I might as well be Indian to a Japanese passersby.

When people learn I'm Brazilian, the reaction typically ranges from positive to neutral (even when discounting for the tatemae).

I suppose things are different in areas with high concentration of Brazilians. But even in those places I'm pretty sure we aren't nearly as despised as certain 2 Asian nationalities, or even as much as American military.

In any case, I've witnessed and experienced way more racism in my own country than in Japan.

Debito Arudou, is that you?

> it's a Japanese word, after all, and is not derogatory in Japanese

That reminds me of 外人 (gaijin). Many will argue it's not a negative word, but when you hear people say it, it's almost never said in a very friendly, inclusive sort of way.

It reminds me of the way white people in their 80s and 90s will use the word 'nigger', and the expectation is "that's just what everyone called them back then, it wasn't racist." And you know, some of the time it may well not have been. But it was always meant as a way of saying, "not one of us."

Now sure, as a literal fact, this person is half Japanese, and this is the word to express that. But what's more important, is when and why is it being brought up? It shouldn't matter, and there should be very few times in life when you need to say or ask it.

These sorts of things seem inevitable when you have such an overwhelmingly homogenous society (99% native, and most of the remaining 1% still Asian.) I'm not quite as hopeful as the author that this is going to change any time soon there.

外人 has a derogatory nuance, because it's curt (therefore not polite) way to say something which has more polite forms, such as 外国の方 (gaikoku no kata) which is a respectful way to refer to a non-Japanese person or people. Depending on context, of course. In some contexts and situations, there is no respectful way to point out someone's nationality, such as when it is completely unnecessary and irrelevant.

Yes, don't base it on the 'vocal minority', rather base it on the everyday experiences of Gaijins living in Japan: It's an extremely racist, xenophobic society, on a tier higher than the United States. Racism is deeply integrated into the average man's world view in ways that it is not in 21st century America.

TBH it's not that different from Korea or China in general, countries I've also lived in. Those 3 nations (ones I can speak for at least) are homogenous, not "nations of immigrants," they haven't had turf wars for minorities, civil rights & political correctness movements. Just the casual daily encounters experienced there as someone who is trying to live there (not someone who is clearly a tourist), would completely baffle any politically liberal, tolerant American.

Are you also a minority in the US? Did you live in different areas in the US? Were you physically attacked because of your race or sexual orientation in Japan?

Because if you're going by "casual daily encounters" that seem racist to you, do you ever wonder if a minority in 21st century america experiences the same?

I'm Chinese, I live in Kentucky. People are wonderful here. I've also lived in Los Angeles - never had a problem, but I did meet lots of second+ generation immigrants who complained a lot about perceived racism, that were really just small things that come with cultural differences. To be honest I find that white Americans are mostly much more self conscious about saying something offensive than Asians would be.

Maybe I have to go further south, or be more homosexual or something, but I haven't experienced the hardcore racism you're describing.

Glad to hear your experience has been positive! I do wonder though if perhaps your desires are a bit different than those of second+ generation Asian-Americans. Whereas you see yourself as Chinese, and thus happy to be introduced to American customs and be the "foreign friend", Asian-Americans would find it somewhat insulting to be considered less than American.

For disclosure, I lived most of my life in USA. I played high school sports here, and most of my friends are white.

That being said, youre definitely onto something. Why should I be pissed that there aren't Chinese folks in cinema when I know that China has it's own massive film industry? I know what it's like being part of a massive majority, but some other asian kids I grew up with might not; they only have America, and they would be more foreign in Asia than here. I feel kinda bad for them, because despite being Chinese, they'll only feel different, instead of proud of being part of a great civilization/history.

To be on the same tier of racism as the United States, Japan has to start lynching its minorities.

I'm guessing you're not a minority in the US, if you think that Japan's racism is a tier higher than the US.

I get that Asia can be pretty racist, but until they start imprisoning minorities disproportionately, or implementing policies like stop-and-frisk, or allowing police to shoot unarmed minorities, then let's just step back for a minute. Not being allowed into a club or getting dirty looks from your local girlfriend's family sucks, but let's not pretend they're on the same level.

I'd imagine the word sounds derogatory to the author as the term half-caste in the UK has the same meaning and has come to be viewed by some (or many, I'm not certain) as a derogatory word.

"1) Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as Miss Japan by Japanese people."

No, Ariana Miyamoto was chosen as "Miss Universe Japan" by a fashion company called HDR Japan. http://www.missuniversejapan3.com/about-us/

Nobody in Japan has ever heard of this.

> There is no word like hafu outside Japan, but I think we need it here.

Welp, she's Japanese alright, she's even mastered nihonjinron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron

But more or less the same concept elsewhere:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapa (Hawaiian, and another loan from the English "half")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luk_khrueng (Thai for "half child")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BAnxu%C4%9Br

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo

That link about nihonjinron is interesting. I see that affect all the time in Thailand. There is a constant discussion of "Thainess" and what it means to be Thai. The government instituted classes on Thainess that are mandatory for foreigners who teach English here. There are regular initiatives to add Thainess teaching to the already pathetic school curriculum. I didn't realize other countries also had a fixation on their identity.

While it means mixed, at least in Mexico the concept carries a different connotation. Rather than being an outsider, it's the national identity. See for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_de_las_Tres_Culturas

Here in Sydney, Australia, the term "halvie" seems to be relatively common amongst those who discuss such things. It's not considered derogatory or offensive; at worst, slightly unsubtle or socially inept (like any labelling of a person by their race). Friends use the term lightly or playfully.

Australia is a predominantly-white country that is geographically closer to Asia than to any other white or Western countries. We have a long history of Chinese immigration.

Sydney, especially inner-city Sydney and the areas around the four major universities, have large proportions of predominantly-Asian international students, many of whom later settle here. White-Asian interracial dating is very common in Sydney. Especially at the universities amongst students in the Science, Engineering (including Computer Science, of course) and Business schools. And so, there are an increasing number of "halvies" being born...

Don't forget French métis, e.g. in Canada:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Métis_people_(Canada)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Métis

FWIW, I learned the word in French speaking Africa.

Finland, another country that's traditionally been very isolationist -- before the EU came along, it was second only to Albania in having the fewest % of resident foreigners -- had its own version of this in 1996, when a Finn of half-Nigerian descent was chosen as Miss Finland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lola_Wallinkoski

Italy has never been very isolationist, but there has been some debate when Denny Méndez [1] won Miss Italia.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Méndez

How is this different from when Miss America 2014 was crowned? (http://www.thewire.com/entertainment/2013/09/first-indian-am...)

This entire article is about stereotyping, and the third paragraph is rife with the authors own stereotypes.

"My confusion lasts only until Ariana opens her mouth. Suddenly everything about her shouts out that she is Japanese, from the soft lilting tone of her voice, to her delicate hand gestures and demure expression."

What is this trash.

Stereotypes are shortcuts for us to more easily categorize people. The term "stereotype" has gotten a negative connotation associated with it because often stereotypes are used in a discriminatory manner, but the truth is that we all stereotype to some degree to ease our mental load.

In this case, the author is identifying behaviors that are more common among people who were raised in Japan than behaviors you might expect from someone raised in the US. My reading was that, while she is ethnically mixed (to whatever extent that phrase is meaningful), she is culturally Japanese through and through.

Extra points for Orientalist views of Japanese femininity.

This is only just now making BBC news? This took place ages ago.

It's not uncommon for vocal minorities (ie. nationalists who take some pride in being "pure" to their race. Not necessarily in a "nazi like" way) to speak up when a "half" wins a contest that is supposed to represent them as a people. If you read through the comments on this thread you'll find several other examples from different nations about this very same problem.

How can you say a 50% Japanese person represents a 100% Japanese person? They are not representative of a 'Japanese person' if they are not fully Japanese!

That is the logic of the nationalists. Does it sound racist? Yes. Is it racist? To most people, probably... especially to PC-minded liberals. Do I consider it racist? Not really, but it brings a host of its own problems regarding these sorts of contests.

How would a ハフ compete in beauty contests? Would there be "African-Japanese" classification? What about people who are a mix of 3 races? 4 races? Do we have to do genetic fingerprinting? Would it be based on a majority of which race you are?

Who cares if she was "selected by Japanese people"? A democratic vote does not guarantee 100% of the people agree with the decision. Let's say she won with a 95% approval rating. That means 5% of the people who voted are either unhappy or neutral that she won. If that 5% is vocal of their disapproval... that's to be expected? Her being selected by Japanese people for the contest does not mean there won't be a vocal minority opposed to it.

> There is no word like hafu outside Japan,

uh, what? how about "half", the exact word that 'hafu' is supposed to emulate? you can't borrow a word from another language, and then claim it's unique to yours!

i'm fairly confident nearly everyone on earth knows what it means to be 'half', or just mixed race/ethnicity in general. in fact there are even places on earth where mixed race is the norm. try going to brazil. FUN FACT: the largest japanese population outside of japan is there. i think they might have a concept of hafu there. just maybe.

if you're paying attention, i think the above statement tells us more about japanese culture than the entire article, on many levels.

A common, although often derogatory, term here in the UK is "half cast" for people (kids in particular) of mixed race.

It's actually half-caste, caste being an Indian term relating to position in society as far I'm in aware.

You're correct.

It's hard to really answer it based on a relatively short article but I don't think she was being literal in the sense that no other culture has a term for someone of mixed race. My interpretation, and it's just that, is she was saying there's no other country outside Japan that has such a unique situation that you therefore really need a word that describes someone who is Japanese and is yet not Japanese at the same time.

yeah, that's also bullshit.

just off the top of my head, i can name: hawaii, the caribbean, brazil, parts of europe (italy comes to mind), east asia (especially places with large overseas diaspora like china and taiwan) all have identical cultural concepts, especially those with large populations living in america.

"In part that is because this is still such an extraordinarily homogenous society. Immigrants make up just one per cent of Japan's population" - Compare that to Brazil. So again, I don't think she's saying it in a literal sense.

>where mixed race is the norm ... brazil ...the largest japanese population outside of japan is there. i think they might have a concept of hafu there

Yes, but I'd bet that the connotations of "hafu" in a society where mixed race is the norm are very different from those where it is unusual.

So much so that you might consider it to be a different word, even if it happens to be spelled the same.

being half japanese in brazil is rare, and the brazilians have a word for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilian

"how about "half", the exact word that 'hafu' is supposed to emulate?"

And in Tokyo Dialect, the 'フ' ('fu') in 'ハーフ' ('haafu') has its 'u' muted to silent or near-silent so the pronunciation is nearly identical to English 'half'.

It's practically an identical borrowing in both meaning and pronunciation; the 'u' is an historical artifact of an obsolete romanization system. Even the glyphs 'フ' and 'ハ' are used -- among other things -- to signify that a word is maintaining its foreign nature and not made Japanese.

>where mixed race is the norm

Humanity may well end up there, given the easy transportation beginning only in the last century. Halfs beget quarters, then 1/(2^n) for ever increasing n.

Not quite true. Genetics isn't just dilution. You can get a grandchild that is very similar to a grandparent and dissimilar to either parent. And so on.

Its not the word; its the meaning. I'm sure we don't appreciate all the subtlety the label 'hafu' brings to a person in Japan. Remember, here classmate committed suicide over it. I don't think the English 'half' would do that.

i think being 'half' racial in the US is an extremely complex and subtle experience of existence, and by entertaining the thought that this is somehow unique to japan is doing a huge disservice to the experience of being biracial or mixed in the US and anywhere in the world.

the reason it is notable is because it is notable almost anywhere on earth.

So, what's the American word that universally summarizes that experience? That was the original assertion, that English has no such word. This wasn't some PC discussion about feelings and such.

Who exactly is a Tanzanian were questions that were also asks also when a Tanzanian of indian descent[1] represented Tanzania in international beauty pageants.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richa_Adhia

well, at least the Japanese dont call their country's beauty pageant winners terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Davuluri#Response_and_sign...

Jhene Aiko is my second favorite blackanese now... :)

Beauty contests are still a thing?

Same way football matches are still a thing. Just because it doesn't entertain you, doesn't mean it doesn't entertain millions of people who don't share your interests.

Football matches are still a thing?

(I'm sorry.)

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