The culture where play is shameful (2012)
psychologytoday.com
psychologytoday.com
I can't help sometimes when reading anthropological studies or videos of a pre-modern civilization that a terrible amount of time is spent on rituals and dances and other things and perhaps the key is that other, faster developing groups of people simply found a different balance between work and these non-productive activities.
However, the Baining seem to represent the opposite end, doing nothing but productive work, and yet they aren't exactly the unusually advanced Atlanteans of PNG either.
So I was struck by this "and exhibited little curiosity or enthusiasm" and it kind of hits me how important imagination and enthusiasm are in the process of advancing things. Toil gets stuff done, but you're just running in place. Imagination is a kind of play, and it's necessary to move you forward as well.
So it would be a waste of time to read Guns Germs and Steel, since it is mostly disputed? What would be a good alternative then?
(according to this link I just googled, American buffalos are actually bisons http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bison_vs_Buffalo )
First off, Bulls can definitely have nasty dispositions, and secondly they can definitely jump fences. I've personally seen a bull clear a 8 foot fence.
thanks for providing that though!
So you would say they would have been eligible for domestication and native Americans failed to do so for some unknown reason?
The argument here was that Diamond's theory is wrong because the native Americans could have domesticated the bisons after all. The claim that they are too difficult to tame is dismissed as "crap". Then it seems to me why they were not being domesticated needs another explanation (if the one from Diamond is not good enough). Just random chance?
/r/AskHistorians has an entire section devoted to the book, so it's had an impact
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/historians_views...
Anyway - best everybody make up their own mind, and remember that EVERYBODY has an agenda. Even the good people on reddit. Specifically, perhaps historians don't like it if somebody advances on their territory with a different approach (combining different disciplines). Their agenda is to push their methodology so that they get more funding for their research.
I am only aware of controversy about the Easter Islands which he described in "Collapse". One paper claimed the extinction of trees was actually because of rats, not because of their excessive consumption by the people for building their statues. Then I think I heard the rats theory to be disproved and replaced by something else.
I don't think that necessarily disproves the gist of his argument.
As soon as you say something like this, you concede the argument.
You are equating human happiness with "giving in to base urges," which couldn't be further from the truth.
Nobody can experience happiness by giving in to whims and random urges without considering the long term.
However, the good for a human being does consist in enjoying life and experiencing good emotion.
So, this was a false dichotomy:
> I'm not arguing that we should completely give ourselves over to our base urges, but acknowledging they exist, that everyone has them, and that they can be a wonderful thing would be a great start.
To be specific, the options are not: deny pleasure on the one hand, or give in to short-term base urges on the other hand with no thought to the consequences.
That is a false dichotomy.
To you, yes. However I am sure there are currently X number of capitalists who are seeing this as an opportunity. I mean who is a better person to hire than someone whose entire self worth is based on having no fun and being productive all their waking hours.
You think you understand??
Submitted by Ngorana of Sinivit, South Coast Baining, Papua New Guinea on August 7, 2012 - 7:49pm
I agree that some cultures and child rearing and discipline can be restrictive, but brought up in a similar manner does not mean that we do not value our upbringing - and i do not see it as 'dull' or 'boring' or 'wrong'! From what I think, in the western society, perception of play and the correct form of discipline to be practiced on children is very different from the most cultures in the east.
I must say, that in the previous works stated in the essay, of the Baining people saying little or nothing in interviews is due to the fact, that if you are not a member (specifically foreigner) of the concerned society amongst the Bainings, than you do not necessarily need to acquire knowledge of their cultural or philosophical way of life - except if you are 'married' into the society, adopted or asked to be part of the society. Baining people are very careful with what they say, and to who, especially about cultural practices - it is a taboo to inform foreigners about this. We are people of little talk. We believe more in actions, and that people must read and interpret them correctly. Something of which our children are taught.
For Baining's of Sinivit of the south coast for example, play is accepted and taken as time-out. However, adults instill in children that working such as chopping fire wood, diving for fish, gardening, building houses, hunting and gathering is crucial in sustaining your self and your land - especially for males at a later age. Children are taught to be independent and self sufficient and less dependent on their parents or elders at a very young age. This whole concept of not allowing play in our daily lives to me is WRONG. The notion of them becoming young women or men one day is embedded into our thoughts by our elders, and that how we are brought up by them will determine what type of adults we will become. In return, the very existence and state of our land (our heritage) and its affairs depend greatly on our actions. We are taught to become hard workers and very private about our cultural affairs.
You see, before the colonial era, we the Baining's inhabited the whole of the land of East New Britain. Invasion by a neighboring cultural group - the 'Tolai' people, forced us into the jungles and coastal area due south of the province. Our forefathers lost most of our valuable land, and people to cannibalism, practiced amongst these invaders. Then during the colonial area, the Germans enslaved them, forcing them into mining our alluvial gold and carrying them hundreds of kilometers inland and storing them away, in what was considered as sacred land - biding us against our cultural beliefs. Stories of these past events have further created a sense of secrecy in protecting our cultural ways (specifically the fire dance), and our land especially.
Baining people do not depend on other related societies to survive out in the natural environment, and land and sea is seen as a commodity of which is treasured and priceless. 'You reap what you sow', is highly emphasized in our cultural society - something of which may be deemed archaic in biblical times....
And so, in my opinion the essay composed by Dr Grey based on some the works of Fajan's is quite biased if you ask me. People do not have the right to be 'frustrated' when studying foreign cultures - you simply have to endure it, or stop wasting your time. Culture is not just something you record, observe and interpret over time, its how well you integrate yourself into the traditions, beliefs and practices of the people of that particular heritage and understand it and its people. Most importantly, you must respect these aspects, as not one culture no matter how much you see it as perfect, is seen as perfect or the correct practice for different cultural societies.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/comment/246571#comment-24657...
Play is not an anomaly, but the essence of personal and technological development. The fuel of progress is play and Learning by example is no substitute for trial and error. On top of that, a play-less culture is not resilient at all, and therefore prone to extinction.
Agree, it reminded me of the "Planet of Hats"[1] trope.
[1]: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats
>> Play is not an anomaly, but the essence of personal and technological development
It's not that I disagree with you per se. Rather that you just stated baldly as fact, what are clearly just your own (and my own) biases.
>> a play-less culture is not resilient at all, and therefore prone to extinction.
Perhaps, but against that, it seems the Baining people have been this way for at least a hundred years. Perhaps considerably longer.
But nowadays everything written without obscene words and spelling errors could be considered " scientific".
This shows how important play is to develop imaginary things like gods, rituals, etc. however, I do wish American adults played a little less. Whenever I'm in the u.s. or when American friends visit me they're constantly futzing around on their phone playing games. I mean constantly and nearly everyone.
Imagine how much you could accomplish if you used that time to for example learn a new language. And before you say that people need to take a break every now and then the people playing these games don't seem to be taking it easy - they're working really hard it!
So there probably is some value in shaming play, at least in adults.
There are probably a few reasons why America has the problem especially badly—maybe an higher-than-average prevalence of ADHD makes this sort of addiction easier to fall into; maybe being the origin of these games and their first launch-market means we get saturated in them (and especially in their coordinated "viral PR" launch campaigns) in a way few other countries do. Really, I think it's just that the social pressure factor is stronger—we really like having shared private experiences to talk about at water-coolers. See also: soap operas.
Chess
Chess works pretty well as a phone-game. You can blitz against the computer and work through endlessly non-repeating permutations of mid and late game play that you'd rarely see against human opponents. Playing against your cell phone does not adequately prepare you for human opponents on its own, but it does help you improve your game.
While being good at chess if of questionable utility, at least it's somewhat respected and can be used in social settings. It's viewed as a skill, unlike being good at flappy bird.
You can have great game experiences on a phone! You can build good, fun games, either in-depth or casual, for mobile, just like you can build them for consoles. In fact, just because a game is "casual" doesn't make it bad! Some of my favorite games have been casual few-minutes-at-a-time pick-up-and-put-down things; non-time-based puzzle games (e.g. KAMI[1]) work especially well for this—they're functionally equivalent to doing a crossword puzzle—but even action games like Tiny Wings[2] can work if they're self-contained.
Then, of course, you can also have things like RPGs and action-adventure games, of just the same quality you'd see from a console.
The most important difference, I think, is that people don't tend to play the good games in the middle of a conversation. The good games are actually engrossing, and therefore can only be played as an exclusive action—you might see someone playing them on the bus, but never just fiddling with them while hanging out with friends. It's only the games with no fun-value at all that are capable of the "empty addiction" you see on people stuck pulling a slot-machine arm all day.
I think what sets games like chess, and to a greater extent go, apart from trivial addictive games, is that they teach concentration, executive function, pattern recognition, and in some cases jumping up and down abstraction hierarchies, in a way that probably extends beyond the game's domain into life.
I don't know what to do about the morass of addictive games that are taking over human mindshare. There have always been some; even crossword puzzles are arguably the pre-computer version. They strengthen recall and concept association but how useful is that, since most of what's required is trivia? Scrabble at least is social (with the benefits that entails) in addition to strengthening recall of uncommon words.
The "Protestant work ethic" is what you get when social mores are mostly decided by people who are unable to get bored. Given that America was founded by such people, the gene pool experienced a heavy selection effect toward hypomanic tendencies and hasn't recovered since. (America's immigration policies only accepting what amount to extremely hard workers continue this trend.)
On the other hand, writing a game is creating the maze. This is far, far more engaging. It's like playing god.
I disagree. The best way to learn a language is by playing. Reading compelling stories, making puns and jokes, flirting with the natives, having some fun!
And I hold the same opinion with mathematics. You can learn to attack some classes of solved problems without having fun, but to be a mathematician you have to follow your sense of aesthetics. Now this is highly sophisticated fun, the kind that takes years to develop. But once you achieve it, it is bottomless, requires nothing but a little free time and it is so useful that our entire civilization runs on it!
If they "play" Duolingo, they'd be doing both: having fun and learning a language.
The stereotypical anthropologist studies foreign tribes by interviewing their members and observing their rituals. Rituals are particularly important because they yield a lot of data about a tribe's traditions and belief systems.
But if the subjects refuse to chat and don't seem to hold any rituals over the course of a year, I can imagine why the anthropologist might get bored. He's not bored because his subjects are uninteresting. He's bored (or rather, frustrated) because he's unable to do the work that he came here to do.
Once you document day-to-day living, which is probably not too unlike most of their neighbors. The only thing left is to document differences. In this case "doesn't do anything interesting" pretty much closes the book on them and it's time to move on.
Other groups will have interesting myths, or variations of myths, games, dances, music, etc. These guys basically just do nothing, and there's not a whole terrible lot that you can write about that.