Overweight students forced to take fitness course or not graduate | Hacker News Reader

Overweight students forced to take fitness course or not graduate

examiner.com

I run four days a week, climb, and lift weights; my maximum bench was 315lbs. I'm also 5'8" and weigh 200lbs, giving me a BMI > 30. By this university's standards, I'm thus obese and require supplementary physical education.

When I was seriously into bodybuilding and weighed 175lbs, I looked like a take-home size action hero. Six pack, huge arms, etc. My BMI at that time was 25.8, which is still considered 'overweight', and 'unhealthy'.

I'm all for encouraging fitness, but using some totally worthless metric to determine who needs to take a PE class is, at the very best, a waste of time and a blatant tax on the students.

The article actually claims completely falsely that BMI measures body fat percentage (a much more accurate metric). I wonder if this is actually poor reporting of the fact that body fat % is taken in to account. If you look over the school's football roster most of the players are actually obese. I can't imagine the school has enough blind faith in BMI to put football players in a class on fitness.

rooster: http://www.lulions.com/roster.aspx?path=football&roster=...;

Ok, maybe BMI is not a good metric but I'm sure the administrator of the school can make the difference between 200lbs of muscles and 200lbs of fat.

Similarly: When my career-military ex husband was on recruiting duty, he and all of the other recruiters at a conference (state-wide?) were told they were "overweight" by the height-weight tables of some insurance guy there. Every last one of them had to pass the PT test to remain in the military and could not be overweight. (The military accounts for such possibilities and has an alternate "tape test" standard which generally works well for those guys who are "overweight" due to bodybuilding -- or did at that time. I don't know what the current standards are.)

It might be controversial but I personally agree.

Especially as an adult your BMI is something you control. I don't understand why society is so tolerant of people mildly self-harming. Especially when the poor health as a result of obesity has an adverse affect on the economics of health the health care system we all use (public health, or company group pools).

If this was about stopping people cutting themselves for a high, then there wouldn't even be a debate. But because it's about an eating related disorder people are defending their dysfunction as acceptable.

Deleted comment

The evidence you cite for low-obese BMI's being healthier than normal BMI's is a blogger's critique of published research which had the opposite finding. Incidentally, the first commenter on the blog did a pretty thorough job of refuting the blogger and defending the original study (whose findings contradict the claim you made here)

Maybe not having a KFC on campus would help... http://www.lincolnuniversitydining.com/locations.html

It's really a question about consciousness, rather than having or not having an option; that's what free will is about.

Free will is not why the KFC is relevant. It's relevant because it's not consistent with the reasoning they've put forward for requiring the class.

You're right--if the school is forcing some students to take that class to lose weight, and is forcing them to follow an exercise regime, it should also force them to eat healthily. But that logic only applies to the students being forced to take the class.

Managing temptation is a part of losing weight. I've been on a new diet and exercise program for about a month now, and while I did go to Burger King today, I made way better choices (a Whopper Jr with no mayo and chicken tenders with honey mustard (total: 560 calories)) than I would have before (Whopper with a medium Coke and medium fries (total: 1440 calories). My sodium, fat, and sugar were way higher than if I cooked myself, but the calories weren't that bad. Sometimes I just want something convenient, cheap, and tasty--diet or no diet.

Walking past a KFC every day, and even going in and eating something there, can be a pretty important tool. I've found it easier to modify my lifelong habits than I have to abandon them.

They're forced to take the class, that's it. I'm not saying consistency would be requiring them to eat healthy - I don't even know how that would be possible.

Their argument was the healthy environment one. If that was consistently their intention, they would have healthier options on campus.

Right. It's hypocritical to punish students for being overweight, yet at the same time market KFC to them (or allow KFC to market to them, if you like).

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I think not taking a required class is sufficient grounds to deny graduation. On the other hand, I think the college was out of line to require "obese"[1] people to take additional classes. The college has a responsibility to prepare students for their adult life, but (a) until I see evidence to the contrary, I highly suspect that special-ed classes for fat people are one of the least effective ways of achieving this goal (b) part of being an adult is taking personal responsibility. I'm not normally someone to whine about nanny government, but the college's policy strikes me as overstepping. My personal moral system also requires more from the students than passively not taking a class for the excuse of 'protesting' to fly, but others may disagree.

[1] Air quotes because BMI should not in any way be considered a reliable way of measuring obesity. Body builders will tend to be considered "obese" because muscle is dense and they have more muscle weight than other people their height.

Why do people get so uppity about BMI? It's a range. 20-25 is the healthy range for most Caucasians. If you are big-boned and have big muscles, then 25 is a good weight. If you are slender, then 20 is a good weight.

Sure, there are guys who are 30, and think they are pretty fit, but they are generally also pretty fat.

There are a few serious body builders who can get past 30, and still be fit, but they are the exception not the rule.

Something like 30% of Americans are obese. Compared to 14% of Canadians, and 9% of French. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity There might be a few more linebackers and bodybuilders in the USA, but I think it's mostly just fat people.

Measuring percent of body fat is probably better, but you can't do it on a set of bathroom scales.

The class itself is a good idea, but they should have everyone take it unless they either "place out" of it by passing a physical and written fitness test or get an exemption from a doctor saying they can't do it.

To try to single out particular students for it is not only poor policy from a stigmatization perspective, but is also ineffective from an educational standpoint, especially when they use a metric as coarse as BMI. Having a low BMI hardly means that one is fit, healthy, or knowledgeable about any of those things.

Is this really any different than the "diversity" classes that some schools make freshmen take?

Is this really any different than the "diversity" classes that some schools make freshmen take?

I don't see any comparison ... what point are you trying to make?

I don't get it. My college required 3 credits of physical education/nutrition to graduation and we didn't have newspapers bemoaning that we were forced to take these courses. The point of controversy seems that they only require the course for overweight students--but on the other hand students who can demonstrate proficiency in other subjects (by placement tests or AP scores for example) can skip otherwise mandatory classes. (on the third hand BMI is probably a lot closer to bullsht than an AP score)

"Forced" seems a bit strong a word though when it's your choice where (or if) you attend college.

> "Forced" seems a bit strong a word though when it's your choice where (or if) you attend college.

"Forced" wasn't considered too strong a word when we were talking about tuition increases.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=959884

I hope this submission doesn't get killed too.

I just noticed. When a submission is dead, you can't get to its article. Since it was a different article, I thought it would be good here.

Sorry for posting the dead submission, I guess that's why I was down-voted. I didn't realize that about dead submissions.

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