Inside the Obsessive World of Artisanal Cocktail Ice | Hacker News Reader

Inside the Obsessive World of Artisanal Cocktail Ice

wired.com

45 pointsdnetesn46 comments

A lot of the comments here questioning the methods are making a classic nerd mistake. The people buying this stuff don't really give a crap if their drinks are less diluted or whatever, though they might express that they do if questioned. What they are actually doing is displaying social status by indulging in expensive methods of preparing alcohol. The validity of these methods is irrelevant. The price tag and the mystique are what matters.

I'm going to get down voted for this, but in this case I don't care. Those who want their ice non-cloudy because of their perceived social status are arseholes. They use finite resources for something that doesn't actually matter to them.

But their perceived social status does matter to them.

My point exactly.

Then I think I didn't understand your comment.

There's kids going hungry out there, and people are paying $6000 for a machine that makes prettier ice.

This is the kind of thing that makes me want to put on a black bandanna and start flipping cars, until I remember that I'm typing this on a $2000 gaming rig, and slouch back into my chair in shame.

I've been living in SE Asia for the last four years and the energy and time Americans waste on stuff like this seems increasingly surreal to me the longer I'm here. Spend your time how you like but there's something very liberating about being freed from all these first world obsessions.

Sometimes I find myself wrestling with the other side of the coin.

Lots of us sit around contemplating whether we're slowly programming ourselves into obsolescence. Or maybe not contemplating the "ifs" of it, so much as the "hows" and "whens" of our inevitable replacement by robots.

And so part of me aches at the blistering, scathing inequalities and wealth disparities implicit in absurdities such as luxury ice, but then I start to wonder what will happen to me when I write that one last shell script that seals my fate as a superfluous meat bag in an otherwise harmonious ballet of circuits and servomotors.

What else will there be worth doing in a post-scarcity economy, besides frequenting upscale hospitality establishments? What if a future of abundance, and robotic hyper-intelligence, turns us all into part-time chefs, bus boys and waitresses?

But yeah, we really do have to get on that whole starvation thing first... maybe it'll be us left out in the cold, if we're not careful about our own obsolescence.

Build capital now, and buy shares in a post-scarcity company before they get expensive.

"Martinis, too, demand minimal dilution, so bartenders will stir gin and vermouth with dense cubes for several minutes to get them to the right temperature."

That's nonsense. Chilling and dilution are proportional. It'd be much smarter to just stir less with normal cubes.

"Lazar noted that some bartenders will stir drinks for several minutes to achieve maximum chilling, which also gives the spirits a viscous, “ropey” quality."

Also silly. At that point you've reached equilibrium, so you might as well have saved yourself 5 minutes and shaken it. Also I don't know how over-diluting can make something viscous or ropey, I'd think it'd make it thin.

> saved yourself 5 minutes and shaken it

Don't shake martinis or manhattans. It gets tiny ice chips in the drink. Bond was an idiot.

That's what sieves are for. A good bartender knows to remove the ice chips before serving the cocktail.

To add to this, shaking introduces air into the drink and creates bubbles, changing the texture and look of the drink. A stirred martini will be clearer than a shaken one.

I always thought "stirred not shaken" would have fit Bond rather better, not just because it leads to a better drink, but because it could be taken as a statement about his attitude.

Yes. That. Bond was a bit of a "rebel" and he would signal it by being contrarian. Ordering vodka instead of gin would also signal "I'm an alcoholic, I'm not ashamed of it, I don't care for taste" (as vodka is a tasteless spirit).

The funny thing is that, due to Bond's popularity, asking for your martini stirred is now the contrarian thing to do. Unless enough people read up on it, discover that one should ask for it stirred, and then decide to signal their rejection of arriviste iconoclasm by asking for it shaken. I haven't been in a cocktail bar for a while so I don't know where in the cycle we are at the moment.

The French Bond, S.A.S. (by De Villiers) did not bother with these mind games and at least in the early books just orders vodka on ice, the alcoholic's drink of choice (tasteless, and with less congeners, leading to an easier hangover). De Villiers' willingness to do product placement sees him go through Cointreau, Gaston de Lagrange cognac, the ubiquitous Moet 1964, and one of the more popular brands of American bourbon (ends around the 20th book if I recall well).

Wait, so am I a barbarian for enjoying those tiny ice chips?

Well, obviously, if you have to ask someone else what style of alcohol is socially correct, you're necessarily a barbarian. If you weren't a barbarian, you'd know. ;p

The corollary is that you know you are not a barbarian when you can explain why someone else is a barbarian if they have to ask someone else what style of alcohol is socially correct ;)

FWIW, because I've just explained that you aren't a barbarian because you explained to someone they are a barbarian because they had to ask if their choice of alcohol is socially correct I exist in an indeterminate state of barbarism until I'm observed.

You can avoid the tiny ice chips with a tea strainer, which you see at any respectable cocktail bar. You don't shake them because it over-dilutes and over-chills, as would stirring for 5 minutes. (It also oxygenates them and makes them a cloudy foamy mess, but that goes away on its own in under 5 minutes.)

It's not over-diluting that could make it "ropey", it's over-chilling. Try putting a bottle of vodka in a freezer. As you chill spirits their viscosity increases. Shaking high ABV drinks with ice brings their temperature well below 0C. See:

http://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=4585.html

Stirring is much less effective than shaking, but very long stirring could approach shaking temperatures. I think it's plausible that the viscosity difference could be perceptible.

Well when you shake it the viscosity difference isn't noticeable. A shaken martini sucks but I wouldn't call it "ropey".

They aren't putting it in the freezer, they're stirring. As that link you posted shows, stirring for 7 minutes and shaking probably get about the same dilution/chilling.

I don't drink these sorts of cocktails, so maybe I'm missing something important. But if everyone wants cold drinks with no dilution, why the heck don't they just refrigerate the ingredients beforehand?

You don't want it with no dilution. It wouldn't taste good. You just don't want it overly diluted.

Refrigerating ingredients isn't practical for bar service because you'd be constantly pulling bottles in and out, so they'd be at fluctuating temperatures. It'd also be very expensive to have that much extra fridge space behind a bar, which is very cramped to begin with.

No. If your ice is cold enough (way below freezing), it's possible to chill the drink with no dilution at all.

No. The phase change takes as much energy as warming the ice 80C. No matter how cold the ice was some would melt, but even getting to where the dilution is minimal would require equipment you can't have at a bar. This article wasn't about a science lab.

I'm not saying that you won't get a single molecule of water going into solution, but if you add a small amount of liquid to ice that's well below freezing, you really can get effectively zero melting. It will equilibrate to a temperature that's still below the freezing point of water.

Pure alchohol freezes at -114 C and 80 proof spirits at around -27 C. Instead of using techniques designed to reduce temperature without diluting the cocktail, why not just keep your mixers close to freezing and your alcohol cold enough to achieve the desired final temperature? Alternatively, keep everything at whatever temperature your freezer can handle and pour in a measured amount of liquid nitrogen (which is cheaper to obtain than high-end ice apparently!). Some dilution is probably desirable in many drinks, so then add ice in the desired final particle size.

This would take some of the art out of shaking and stirring drinks, but it would also make results less labor intensive and more reproducible.

Bah. I drink scotch with a few drops of water. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to cocktails, so I'm probably missing something.

Water keeps the temperature pretty well. But if you just want a temperature buffer without any effect on dilution, you can substitute a heavy glass (or water / ice in a separate compartment but in themic contact).

Liquid nitrogen would probably react similarly as to plain water, the target clientele might prefer a more muted effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axgf3XhOGqw

If anyone is interested in doing this at home, without the $6000 giant ice cube maker, here's a kit for $60-80: http://www.studioneat.com/products/neaticekit

I haven't used it myself but I've heard a lot of cocktail enthusiasts rating it very highly. Seems crazy to me but then I do ridiculous things for coffee, so I can't really judge :-)

I work in cocktail bars and run cocktail events. When I don't have access to a clinebell, I make my own using a similar setup, but it only costs about $5.

Buy a largish tupperware container, say 2-5 gallons, and wrap the sides and top--not the bottom--in insulating foam. Fill with purified water and place in a conventional freezer for at least 12 hours for smaller containers, 24+ for larger ones.

The idea is that the bottom will chill faster while the air bubbles rise to concentrate the cloudiness at the top. You'll wind up with a nice block that's mostly clear, save for an inch or so at the top.

Tips:

* Remove all food products and put baking soda in the freezer. You don't want your ice to taste like fish sticks.

* When you cut the ice, leave it out at room temperature for ~10 minutes before cutting. Score lines in the block use a mallet and knife edge to separate pieces.

You can also just use a beer cooler with the top open.

It makes it easier if you learn the timing such that it freezes to just about the depth you want to cut the blocks at (about 2") and the rest of the water is still liquid. Then the ice comes out already at melting point and cuts more easily.

Baking soda in the fridge/freezer is a marketing success by Arm & Hammer. It does not remove smells. Try activated charcoal instead.

Any suggestions on how to wrap it in insulating foam? Can you by a spray-on foam or something?

If you've never seen the "Japanese bartender parlor trick":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1zrDxVFcX4

Apply numbing cold to digits and then hack around them with a sharp knife for around 4 minutes per ice-ball. I wonder how often you cut your fingers when making these things.

As a relative pointed out, you can put "artisanal" in front of anything and charge more for it.

Except for gold mines. Artisanal gold mines don't sell for as much as a typical gold mine.

I bet that they do if you do the comparison per unit of gold available.

(just because the larger the operation, the more value the process plant will tend to bring compared to the ground)

I find that making ice from hot water produces clearer cubes. The theory behind this is that since cold water absorbs more gas it produces lower quality ice. Hot water may have more solids disolved in it but less gas and there is little opportunity for the water to absorb gas during the freezing process. Try it some time if you doubt this assertion.

It made no difference for me. Try it yourself with a control.

The "freeze a big block and cut off the ugly part" definitely works though.

> As with diamonds, cocktail ice is judged by its clarity, density, size and cut, all of which add to the quality and aesthetics of the experience. As water freezes, air bubbles are trapped and eventually disperse inside

Same bullshit as with diamonds. Just boil water before freezing to remove gases and make ice transparent.

http://xkcd.com/915/

While interesting, I wonder why this is front page with only 3 votes in 2 hours?

I think it's just that Sundays are slower.

Don't forget that it's a holiday in the 'States. I'd wager many readers are probably out barbecuing, or camping, or stuck at an airport right now.

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