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Show HN: Pubmail.io

pubmail.io

54 pointsMizza51 comments

I just created an account, using the same account for email confirmation.. and it worked ;)

now that the link is publicly visible, can I lose control of my account?

EDIT: some others did the same, bright minds think alike :)

Well, you can.. but that's kind of your fault for being cheeky. So yes, you can lose control over your account if you do that, but that's not really a bug, that's a PEBKAC.

"I will not use Pubmail for spamming or any illegal purposes."

Not checking that box until "illegal" is defined. Which jurisdiction?

Also, I'm not too keen on requiring an email address to create an email address.

EDIT: and apparently, checking that box is not required to create an account.

EDIT 2: is there a way to use SMTP and POP/IMAP (i.e. use a standard email client)? If not, is this something in the works? I have a feeling this is dead in the water if you're targeting politicians without letting them use their Outlook.

It's not really intended for politicians to use it, but rather for people to communicate with politicians using it, and having these communications available publicly.

I don't think the goal of this project is to allow public officials to respond in public, but rather to avoid having to copy-paste email chains with public officials when they stonewall or downright circumvent laws in what they believe is a private channel (traditional email).

POP, SMTP and IMAP would seem contrary the whole idea of a public stream of email communication. The idea here is that reporters, investigators or concerned citizens can use a pubmail.io address to simply maintain public communication with a public official.

^^ Exactly! Wish I could make this clearer.

I wrote up an 'about' page here, but it's a bit lofty: https://pubmail.io/about/

I'd love it if a politician could use it, but I don't think that's going to happen in the near future, so this gives the public a tool to foce more transparency without the politicians/reps themselves having to commit to it.

Can you answer the initial question about legal jurisdiction, though? This is still not clear in the About page, and if you're including a checkbox (that's thankfully optional) asking if one's use of Pubmail will be for "legal purposes", it's generally a good idea what "legal" means in the context of the site. "Legal" in terms of American law? British law? Iranian law? Somali law? Sharia law? UN law? Sealandic law?

Yeah, I mean, I don't honestly have an answer for that. I guess I should.

It basically means, "don't be a dick, don't harass, don't spam." I'm not a big fan of laws, but I am a big fan of common sense and decency, and that's all I want.

The answer would probably be the same answer as "Which country does this site operate from?", but IANAL.

Regardless, changing the text of that checkbox to what you mean - "I promise to refrain from being a jerk, harassing people, or spamming" - would make the question moot.

> POP, SMTP and IMAP would seem contrary the whole idea of a public stream of email communication

I disagree. I believe it would create for easier access to a public stream of email communication, in particular to the person who sent the email. Sure, there's an easy way to get a notification when one gets an email, but how about replying to it? If one could reply to the email from the notification email (and see the contents of the email), that would be going towards a better solution (in my opinion). But even better would be POP, SMTP, and IMAP support, for the easiest way of getting emails, checking them, sending them, replying to them, etc.

POP, SMTP, and IMAP would not remove the web access and the public viewing of all emails, it would extend what has already been created.

>Also, I'm not too keen on requiring an email address to create an email address.

You can use a pubmail email address to sign up for pubmail, then check the public pubmail account to verify it.

(Or you could use Mailinator for the same purpose)

Awesome idea and execution! I'm reading through the featured emails and laughing at how unresponsive public officials are.

I recommend adding a signature feature. If I were to use this service, I'd want to add a signature to the effect that all emails to and from the account are publicly accessible.

Also, I recommend adding a way to read through a specific account's emails (nevermind, they have that) and a way to search through all email.

Yah, a signature feature would pretty much need to be essential. It's pretty essential you tell some one they're on speakerphone, let alone a permanent record.

Can you provide a legal citation requiring notification to someone over email if the conversation is to be public?

There's no search function (yet), but you can look at a specific user's box: https://pubmail.io/mail/user/rich/

The signature issue is interesting. On one hand, the point isn't to 'trick' people and it should be transparent, on the other hand, putting that "up front" may negatively impact response rates. However, I think you're right that it should be the user's option.

Cool service, OP, where/how are you hosting this, btw? I ask because some years ago I built a ruby-based service very much like it for personal use, but the monthly aws costs started getting to me (it was costing me about $40 a month to run... yes, I am that poor).

This is hosted on a super cheapo DigitalOcean droplet. I think it's about $10/mo. The mail service is provided by MailGun, which is an amazing API/library set and super cheap!

Hey, thanks for making this! I've considered doing this as a pre-emptive for NSLs relating to geolocation (building GPS apps). Nice to see someone do it.

Have you gotten any corporate accounts or politicians signed up you want to share with us?

No, not yet, as this is the first real 'coming out' for Pubmail. It's mostly just been me and friends testing it out so far.

That being said, I'd love if it political/corporate users had their own accounts, but I don't think that will ever happen. It's more about doing the opposite - having ordinary people post their communications with political/corporate officials to the public by default.

> That being said, I'd love if it political/corporate users had their own accounts, but I don't think that will ever happen. It's more about doing the opposite - having ordinary people post their communications with political/corporate officials to the public by default.

I love this. Thank you!

This is an excellent idea. I have no idea if this is already a feature, but it would be nice to see when the recipient has opened/read a mail. I really wish something like this would be implemented by policy in government. I understand it would divert "meaty" conversations even further behind closed doors, but something like this is definitely a good start. Bravo!

I would like that feature as well, but I think that's technically impossible, right? Doesn't Gmail block image/open tracking now?

Ah, I've got it backwards! I meant originally that the pubmail email could be seen as having been read, but that was my backwards thinking that the politician would be the one using the pubmail address. This way, yes, it would be impossible to get a return receipt without image/js or something.

Maybe Gmail does, but not all mail services do.

It wouldn't be that hard to add a 1x1 invisible pixel in the message footer and see how well it works.

Gmail no longer does. They download the images for you, so your IP isn't leaked. I'm not sure if this is done beforehand (removing all info from the load), or after you open the email.

Oh, interesting. So open tracking still works, just doesn't come directly from the client.

Interesting.. maybe this is do-able after all.. /mail/{{mail_id}}/{{open_tracker_id}}.gif

Gmail pre-downloads images and caches them. This causes false positives that enails have been read when in fact they may not have been.

Happy to answer any questions that you might have!

Or, I'm realizing now, if you want to try it out, email me at rich@pubmail.io

or if I understand it, email me at rich@pubmail.io

Can I be rich@pubmail.io too?

How's this different from just blogging?

Got a 500 on this link: https://pubmail.io/mail/thread/S1755839AbbEUWbg/201505212231...

Looks like a really cool idea!

What’s your stack? It spoke Polish to me on your login page because of my IP :)

This is pure Django! That functionality is provided by the wonderful Django-Allauth package.

I'll F/OSS this whole project soon enough, but I need to fix a few bugs first.. https://pubmail.io/mail/thread/20150517210222.16302.49561/we...

Are there not legal ramifications for automatically sharing what is presumed to be private correspondence?

For example a politician might well reply with information that is not intended for general circulation (private information etc).

Yes there is. Public disclosure of private facts but only if it's not in the public interest AND it needs to be offensive. But realistically this is the United States and you're going to have a hell of a time convincing a judge to go for it. US libel and privacy law is very weak.

This isn't anywhere. I am in the UK and the internet is international.

Nice, I was thinking of implementing something like this myself as I hate retweeing reps' emails. Just one suggestion - why do you need to confirm every action including non-destructive like logging out?

Accounts stuff is provided by an upstream package, django-allauth. Confirm on logout is handy so you can't trick a user into GETing a log out page, it has to be POSTed.

Well, that's what nonces are for though.

There should be an option to flag email as spam, or as unwanted email, or as scam, or just a general "flag" option (for other people's mailboxes, too).

There is a spam filter acting already, but it looks like we already have our first troll spamming it.. great. Knew this would happen, hoped it wouldn't happen two hours after launching. =/

Ah, I was thinking more along the lines of generally inappropriate email that a spam filter wouldn't pick up. Like public shaming or flaming, for example.

It seems like noreply@pubmail.io is stuck in some sort of a loop?. I apologize if I somehow caused that. I just tried to email myself (okokok@pubmail.io)... :/

Oh jesus.. fixed..

Really cool idea.

I guess that it might make you liable if you get a "confidentiality required/don't read if it's not sent to you" sort of emails?

Thanks!

I actually looked into that, and basically that's just a cargo-cult pseudo-legalese things that people do, they aren't legally binding in any way.

Would be great to see a search and/or filter function.

Noted! When there is enough usage, I'll add an ElasticSearch backend.

There is a 'tag' feature: https://pubmail.io/mail/tag/police/

Do you think it would be useful to be able to 'follow' users?

Neat!

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