My Ukraine
brookings.edu
brookings.edu
If we accept that, as a member of the super-wealthy post-USSR kleptocracy engaged in an endless Presidency, Putin is naturally most concerned about maintaining domestic power, then the thesis is: massive uprisings in their largest ex-Soviet neighbor, against a Russian-allied President, where the public floods into the President's palace and becomes even more enraged at evidence of their wealth (a golden loaf of bread; a pirate-ship restaurant), make it impossible domestically that Putin not respond with a show of force.
As the article says, he and his chums have palaces too.
Like Neocons in the US.
The wonderful thing about modern propaganda is that it has become so subtle we often mistake it for our own opinions.
As a European when I watched CNN for the first time at the early stages of the Iraq war, I first wasn't sure whether it was supposed to be satire or fiction. It took me a while to realise that this is what many people think of as "news" in the US. Makes me wonder what I miss in our own news media -- you only spot bold faced lies when you have a trusted reference you can compare them to.
Because any I've been reading a lot of information on the matter from a large number of sources, and couldn't help but draw a conclusion that Russia is indeed a pseudo-democracy trying hide its totalitarian essence.
That makes it a bit difficult to respond in good faith to people who chime in with vague, 'you people believe the western media too much' comments.
But I'd be interested in knowing your response to concrete things I mentioned in my comment. For instance, how wealthy is Putin? How about his close allies? And how did they make their fortunes? And is he in an endless Presidency, or not?
(None of which is to say that Putin hasn't been a fantastically successful President; he reintroduced the stability necessary for Russia to succeed, which it really has during his Presidency ... but the problems with success via concentration of power in one man are age-old, and a common one is a foreign policy, motivated by entirely domestic concerns and a desire to stay on top, that appears irrational on the international stage).
I just think its a tell tale when people disregard opinions like mine as enemy propaganda.
Its like a sign of the hyve mentality. Contrarian opinions are always right in cases like this.
The facts are simple:
- Russia had Ukraine in her iron grip
- EU was expanding east
- pro-Russian president turned down EU's offer
- Ukrainians got pissed, because the state of things suck and they want change, and EU seems like a good idea (whether it will work out for them is another story)
- they overthrew the pro-Russian government, and got a pro-EU one, who is unfortunately also quite corrupt, but that's beside the point
- Russia is pissed, and finds a way to intervene.
In short, the west started a diplomatic/cultural war in Ukraine, and Russia lost, so it's resorting to physical war now. There is really no good guys in international politics.
Definitely no love loss for Putin or Russia among them.
It is more complicated.
Being ethnic Russian is not same thing as speaking Russian language. Speaking Russian language or being ethnic Russian is not same as being pro-Russia politically.
Yet, Russian propaganda implies this things are same and Russian govt represents interests of all people who speak this language.
As result (some) people abandon language, distance themselves from Russia or don't consider themselves Russian anymore.
So while Putin's people are likely causing issues in Ukraine it is just as likely there are many people in Ukraine who did not support the revolution and seek outside support for the last legitimately elected government.
TL;DR. the people of Ukraine made a mess of it, gave Putin and opening, and still cannot sort it out. Not the news HN should be showing
That's enough for me to put the blame squarely on Russia for the current situation. Whether the people who initiated the coup against Yanukovych represent the entire population, a majority or a minority, it's an internal Ukrainian affair and Russia has no business interfering.
Add the take down of the Dutch plane, the nonsense about tanks taking "relief supplies" over the border, soldiers getting "lost on vacation" and it's pretty clear that Putin is engaging in an illegal war.
And, yes, I am from the US. I don't agree with our illegal wars either so please don't go there.
Also, why do you think Putin (personally?) took down the plane? Where is any international investigation report claiming that with a proof?
As much fun it is to bring up the infamous "Fuck the EU" phone leak, there were serious efforts to pave the road for a Ukranian entry into the EU and/or NATO -- a knowing violation the silent agreement to have a post-Soviet buffer zone between the West and Russia.
Two wrongs don't make a right. But Russia would never allow Ukraine to be NATO and a launching pad for a Russian invasion.
His government turned on its own people and cracked down on protesters, leading to the events of EuroMaidan. Putin of course would not have the European Union in his backyard. He also certainly did not want his main access to the Black Sea to be cut off, so he used the turmoil to annex Crimea, while keeping Eastern Ukraine as unstable as possible.
Mrs. Freeland's long-duration take on the situation makes it most worth reading.
We are engineers here, we know that big disasters come from a complex of different factors. Why do you think Ukraine is an exception, why continue blaming a single person? I don't see why this sort of article should be on HN.
For instance, felipepiresx was entirely inactive for over a year, before jumping all over this thread 20 minutes ago.
even John Kerry already told Poroshenko to think twice.
edit: spelling
I'm an LGBT person (specifically, I'm both L and T), and after seeing what Putin did to my people, I have absolutely zero respect for anyone who supports Russia in any way.
Yes, a lot of Russian politics are pretty worrying and negatively impact the lives of all kinds of people, but if you paint everyone in such broad strokes, you end up coating the entire world.
It is oppressive and dangerous.
Besides, a lot of anti-nonheteronormative politics in Russia likely have more to do with political tactics than with actual convictions of Putin or anybody else. For example the Russian Orthodox church is still immensely powerful in many parts of Russia and condemning "sexual deviants" is an easy way to score points with them and the corresponding demographic (and thus voters).
There's a nice phrase that was introduced by a Jew documenting the trial of one of the organizers of the Holocaust: the banality of evil. Most acts of evil are either well-intentioned or simply "accidentally" evil -- the evil itself is merely a consequence or side-effect.
Yes, you should oppose repressive policies. Vehemently so. But "Russia" as a whole is far more complex and complicated than any individual policy or group of policies.
I'm strongly opposed to a lot of what the US is and does, both as a government and as the people that elected and sustains that government's actions. But it would be absurd to deride people who say anything good at all about the US or Americans simply for not immediately qualifying their statements with criticism.
I wouldn't want to live in Russia or the US. I think both countries are guilty of all sorts of crimes against their own citizens and mankind in general, each in their own uniquely horrible ways. But that doesn't mean they have no redeeming qualities.
Heck, even Hitler was a vegetarian and had an affection for dogs.
Heh.
No ethnic tensions really happened in Ukraine ever. Biggest problem I (as ethnic Russian and Ukrainian citizen) ever had was about spelling my name in Latin letters.
It's totally made up topic that just appears before elections.
You can use spoken and written Russian almost everywhere including contracts, court, communication with government employees, etc.
Yet, at Donbass and Crimea Ukrainians and Crimean tatars are threatened.
So yes, there are ethnic tensions now, thanks to Russian govt.