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Comment by kiba | Hacker News Reader

Way too many people are getting through our primary education system with absolutely no understanding of how science, as a process and discipline works.

It's a question of trust in scientific authorities, not about their knowledge or lack thereof.

No amount of understanding or attempt at education will dissuade anti-vaccine parents.

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Ah, see, these anti-vax parents aren't like yesterday's anti-vax parents: "The parents who do it now do it for very legitimate reasons. We don't do it because we are uninformed."

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines...

How does one interpret this document? We laugh at the side effects associated with medications when it's on the television but not the FDA documentation for such medications?

Under "CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY" it reads that MMR "may" cause serious complications and/or death. Further down it reads that the MMR Vaccination may cause serious complications and/or death.

I am confused

I'm not sure if you're trolling or simply misreading that document, but under the section you cited it says that getting Measles, mumps, and rubella can cause serious complications or death. Not the shot which vaccinates against those diseases.

Not trolling. Under "Adverse Reactions", death is included under "Other".

That listing is all of the adverse events that occurred during clinical testing. We don't know if it's the vaccine, or because a kid slipped and hit his head, causing death. If you were to continue reading, you'd see this:

> No deaths or permanent sequelae were reported in a published post-marketing surveillance study in Finland involving 1.5 million children and adults who were vaccinated with M-M-R II during 1982 to 1993.

It's quite unlikely that any of the marketed MMR vaccines have ever caused a death.

I'm having a hard time believing you are not willfully misreading this document.

I nearly died from an MMR shot. I didn't read the linked doc but I can assure you people can die or have very serious complications from the MMR shot.

And was that better or worse than nearly dying from measles?

There's a very small chance of dying from the MMR vaccine. I imagine one is more likely to die from measles itself if unvaccinated.

I had both, the MMR and measles. Clearly the shot didn't work and nearly killed me and so did the measles. Yes a small chance but when you are in that small percentage it really stinks.

Well that sucks. How long ago was this?

The problem is that the word "may" covers a wide range of probabilities. Yes, there is a small but non-zero chance of adverse reactions to the vaccine. But it's orders of magnitude less dangerous than contracting one of the diseases it prevents.

Under "Clinical Pharmacology" it reads that Measels, Mumps and Rubella MAY be associated with serious complications and death. Which "may" is better?

The one in which people get vaccinated.

The one that leads to fewer serious complications and death.

Which is vaccination, by a margin so close to 100% that presenting it as the greater harm and refusing it on that basis is completely untenable.

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