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Comment by ekianjo | Hacker News Reader

> Also, Macbook Pros are incredibly well built hardware, compared to the typical Thinkpad.

They are built to be monoliths that cannot be opened and tweaked with. I'm not sure how you can say it's well built hardware if one cannot interact with it at all. On a Thinkpad, I can upgrade the memory, add a SSD on top of my base hard drive, remove and replace the LCD screen, completely replace the keyboard... and of course change the battery - and everything just works. That's incredibly well built -modular- hardware, without any stop needed at your local Lenovo shop to change anything.

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No one claims an Audi is not "well made" because the engine is not user-replaceable.

Whether the battery is replaceable by the user or not has zero to do with how well made the thing is.

I had a MBP when they had replaceable batteries. I much prefer to have one one that's thinner, lighter and lasts a lot longer on battery power, knowing that if I still have it when the battery is no longer adequately holding charge, I can take it into an AppleStore and they will replace it for me, for the same cost they used to charge for a battery alone.

If you want user replaceable everything that's your choice but don't try to associate that attribute with the build quality of a machine, and don't assume everyone else wants to replace parts themselves. The vast majority, do not.

> If you want user replaceable everything that's your choice but don't try to associate that attribute with the build quality of a machine, and don't assume everyone else wants to replace parts themselves. The vast majority, do not.

Well among people who built desktop PCs for the whole life, the idea of having something completely closed and locked up is ludicrous. That's maybe what you don't understand, if you don't come from that culture (and if you don't enjoy that aspect of hardware). And the "Vast Majority" does not mean anything, most computers users nowadays are amateurs who have no computing background, that should not be a benchmark for considering if something is appropriate or not (fallacy).

> No one claims an Audi is not "well made" because the engine is not user-replaceable.

I don't know about Audi (I don't repair cars), but I know people who do in my close family, and who get really mad a newer cars whose engines are all locked into a single block as they cannot be repaired anymore. That's the Apple model for cars at work, and in the future kids won't even understand how cars or computers work since all they see is a black box that has no key. Even for educational purposes, it's essential to be able to see the innards of your machine.

> has zero to do with how well made the thing is.

Oh, and if you can't see it, how can you judge how well made it is ? It could be a glorious mess for all you know.

A better parallel would be not being able to replace the tires on your Audi. After a few years the Audi's function would be significantly degraded...I mean sure technically you could just drive on the rims just as technically you can use a laptop with a dead battery at the coffee shop given a little luck and packing your own extension cord.

That's not to say that the MBP's profile of compromises and benefits doesn't work for some people. But whether a glued in battery is a signifier of high or low quality is a matter of subjective opinion not soundly deduced objective fact.

> A better parallel would be not being able to replace the tires on your Audi

You're right actually.

Now, when was the last time anyone who didn't work at/own a tire shop, mechanic's garage change their own tires?

You need very specialised tools and specific knowledge/experience to change tires on cars - particularly if you want them balanced/aligned so they last more than a month.

So how is this any different?

> Now, when was the last time anyone who didn't work at/own a tire shop, mechanic's garage change their own tires?

Even if that's the case, your analogy is broken, because with tires you can go in just ANY tire shop and have them replaced, so it's actually a free market more or less, and that drives costs down for the consumer to the point that they don't bother doing it themselves. You don't need to go to Audi-approved Store only.

With Apple you don't have this choice. Even if you wanted to replace stuff by yourself. You are left with a useless brick once the battery dies out.

> Cannot be opened or tweaked with

Unlike a many-year-old thinkpad, Macbooks generally dont have problems requiring you to open them and fiddle. As with alot of Ultrabook style machines, everything's soldered down meaning you get a thinner, lighter product, even the new thinkpads. Granted upgradinng RAM is a bit tricky now, but 8GB base isnt too bad.

EDIT: pre-empting the reply, I use both a T61 and a Macbook and they're both useful in their own ways.

Thinkpads (at least older ones, I don't use the most recent series) are very reliable in my experience. They age but breaking them is almost unheard of.

> As with alot of Ultrabook style machines

That's the problem I have with Macs - trying to be thinner for the sake of being thin. We're past the stage where most laptops were bulky and very heavy. I'd rather have one that's a little thicker, has several extension ports, and can be tweaked with (hence a Thinkpad works for me).

I've had to open up a number of Apple laptops for friends over the years. It does seem to me that the newer ones have increased in reliability a bit, but not to the point that I don't have to take a screwdriver to one semi-regularly. The only thing significantly reducing the frequency of such repairs is that some of them have become impossible.

I own a T61/T60P hybrid I built myself. I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I need more than 8gb of RAM. I haven't had a problem with this hardware since the HDD died and got replaced with an SSD.

Just take it to the hardware repair shop and spend more time with your family.

Taking a laptop to a shop to get a disk replaced is probably more time consuming than doing it yourself, if you're using a well designed laptop that makes it easy to replace.

LOL, just driving to the store is more time consuming that doing the change myself. I can amazon parts to my place, open the carton, replace the said part in less than 10 minutes because everything is exposed and easily accessible. The whole keyboard is just 2-3 screws away. It's all very well thought of so that you don't need a professional to do it. Just like IKEA (except that IKEA wood material is shite).

ThinkPads are incredibly easy and quick to repair, most repairs could be done quicker than you could drive/transit to the nearest hardware repair shop. There are access panels for hard drive, memory, etc labeled with icons next to the screw holes. Not to mention if you have kids, perfect time to teach them a little about hardware.

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