Indian IT workers are easy to boss around? | Hacker News Reader

Indian IT workers are easy to boss around?

4 pointspcurve10 comments

Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, white, or IT worker. But I work as a product design manager at a large company and work with various functional teams on daily basis.

I've come to a sad conclusion that one of the main reasons why managers love to outsource to companies like Accenture, Tata, and Cognizant is because their Indian consultants are easier to boss around and are far less likely to question manager's decisions.

IT workers in general have higher cognitive capacity than their non-IT managers and fellow coworkers, and I have noticed that American developers (or Russian/Ukrainian transplants from the 80s/90s) are not afraid to question bad decisions and authorities. This is sharp contrast to Indian workers who will follow orders without much push-backs, and those who do, are often replaced at the request of management.

Do you think there's validity to this observation? I've thought about other factors too, such as full-timer vs consultants and young vs old.

I disagree with your conclusion. These "meat shops" are not the place for creative talent. They are that, meat shops. We have them in Mexico as well. You can't expect a person to use its creativity in a project where you are not expected to contribute in a creative way. These companies are hired to do manual work, not creative work.

It is a problem with motivation in outsourcing companies. I have met a ton of Indian IT workers who are amazingly creative and bright, and with strong convictions. But when they started out in an outsourcing companies, nobody really cared about their ideas or what they thought. So motivation goes to the ground. They'll do their job.

This problem is greatly attributed to people from India, because they have the biggest outsourcing industry. But it happens in the U.S. as well.

This is the main reason why so many reports discourage outsourcing. It is not that the work force is not good enough, it is just that they are not encouraged and motivated to be creative, they are encouraged to finish the work fast and with little salary.

I don't disagree with your meat shops assessment. But you have to wonder how this creative and highly analytical professional devolved into meat shops.

Initially there was cost differential was too attractive to ignore. But over time, H1B costs have gone up. And even though per/hour per/body cost of H1B is still lower, anybody who've worked on IT projects many moons ago realize that we used to get a lot more done with far fewer bodies.

There were days where you can bring in couple of amazingly talented consultants on 1099 charging $200/hour doing miracle work. No more. Yes, the hourly rates were ridiculous, but the total costs were lower.

So H1B is no longer just about the cost in my opinion.

I have seen the situation from the other side and it seems to align somewhat with the idea of "don't disagree with the boss":

I (Australian, white male) was contracting for a telecom and my direct manager was an Indian guy. At one point, he said something technical and I disagreed and told him he's wrong.

He just said "ok then", turned around and went back to work. He didn't speak to me for three days (we sat next to each other) after that, even when I asked if he had anything for me to work on (a simple no without looking at me).

Eventually I had to call my contact at the contracting agency, who in turn contacted the manager.

The first thing he said to me? "If you have a problem you don't talk to him, you talk to me". The irony apparently was lost on him. The whole reason for the silent treatment was because I dared to dispute what he said in the office where other people (who we didn't work with directly) might hear. He admitted I was right but said I shouldn't have called him on it "in public"

Between that and "if the CEO is in the office you should be, so he knows you are working" the experience was not exactly great.

I think this is independent of culture. Being challenged by a person low on the hierarchy so openly does look untactful on your part.

I don't think you understand. Or if you do, we have very different ideas about what's important.

He was my direct manager, but we were literally a team of two, working on a project together.

He was unabashedly wrong - not slightly wrong, not a bit confused, not misinterpreted - just flat out wrong.

When I told him, I didn't make a fuss, I didn't make a big deal, I just told him calmly "no, that's wrong, X because Y".

Literally my only other option was to say nothing, and let the project waste time because of his incorrect assumptions/ideas.

As an Indian IT worker, I say yes. We are easy to boss around. This might arise from our inherent low confidence and our timid nature.

I think this is largely true. Some of it is cultural (authority is generally unquestioned e.g: politics). Some of it is due to lack of leverage. IT services is a factory model, where anyone should be replaceable. But, if a manager bosses around a key developer in a product company, he would be screwed just like in any part of the world.

Ironic, wouldn't you agree, that Mohandas K. Gandhi kicked the British Empire out of India without firing a shot.

I once had a coworker, and close friend who was a Brit on H1-B in the US. I was treated like gold by the company, but he was kicked around. The reason is that I was not afraid to leave - and I did resign later, over a stupid decision on the part of our CEO - but if my friend left his job, he would have to go back to England.

Good point. H1-B folks have very little leverage, which naturally leads to subservient behavior, and which in turns invite more abusive behaviors from others. I've been on calls where full time employees were yelling at H1-B folks. They would never dare to the same to their fellow full time employees

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