Widodo’s Desperate Executions | Hacker News Reader

Widodo’s Desperate Executions

newyorker.com

15 pointsdanso13 comments

I am an Indonesian. Although majority of the people here support death penalty for drug trafficker, there are growing opposition to this execution on social media.[1] However, it seems the reasons are somewhat split:

- Some people opposed to death penalty, whatever the reasons.

- Some agree on death penalty, but only on select case.

- Some concerned by the law enforcement corruption. For example in the case of Zainal Abidin, the Indonesian who get executed too, there are bureaucracy mishaps that prevented him from getting a retrial. New Yorker mentions there are bribe request allegations too.

On the other hand, nationalism is very big in Indonesia. When countries like Australia confront the execution strongly, they see it as an intervention. Moreover, you can point out that John Howard himself supported death penalty on bali bombers.[2]

Australians should learn diplomacy from the Phillipines, who is able to save their own Mary Jane Veloso.[3]

Ref:

[1]https://twitter.com/search?q=%23savemaryjane

[2]http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/metoo-policy-mess/200...

[3]http://globalnation.inquirer.net/122263/indonesia-why-aussie...

I'm Australian. I don't think whether or not the death penalty is good or bad is the discussion here. This is about sentencing people to death in an unfair justice system and a president who obviously has political motives (gains) to see these executions go ahead, regardless. I.e. corruption.

Before Widodo came to power the death sentence was rarely enforced.

Yeah, drug-trafficking and capital punishment aside, I agree on your two points: Widodo's domestic popularity seems to be declining sharply and corrupt justice system getting stronger. We, Indonesian, experience it first hand sadly.

I am truly sorry for the Australian whose caught in the middle of this mess.

I find it interesting that the author infers that Indonesia low drug (4% of population), compared to higher drug use in Europe and America, should preclude the from taking a tough stance to prevent drugs abuse from becoming an epidemic.

On the contrary, we should applaud Indonesia for having a system that keeps drug use at low levels.

I don't think that's what the article is about.

What I read was about a President who to eager to please a population with a sense of national pride. Indonesia, being a former colony, has obviously a low self esteem and only seem to be able to be ruled by some sort of iron fist which has to show the world that they are really smart, clever and "sovereign".

Whether or not the death penalty should have been applied and whether or not this "cures" the drug problem is not really the discussion (I believe). That a small group of people had to sacrifice their lives for political gain, and to prove a point, seems to be a more interesting discussion here.

I certainly hope Widodo and his henchmen will be brought in front of an international court to clarify themselves over this.

"That a small group of people had to sacrifice their lives for political gain"

They didn't "sacrifice" their lives, they were drug dealers and found guilty by the courts in Indonesia. There's nothing heroic about dying for this cause.

Furthermore it is widely known that Indonesia executes drug dealers no matter where they happen to come from and the Australians surely have known about this "business risk".

I'm against the death penalty but I recognize that I have no say about Indonesian laws. This is their own sovereign decision to make. If you don't like this then don't try to sell/import crystal meth or heroin in Indonesia.

It is however, quite hypocritical that Indonesia has lobbied for their own citizens to be taken off death row in other countries[1] yet they refuse the same for foreigners in Indonesia.

I don't disagree with you that the Australians must have known the risks and they chose to go ahead anyway, that was stupid. It is also Indonessia's perogative to enforce their chosen laws as they see fit. But there are political reasons why this whole situation has gone down the way it did, and those reasons are more to do with certain Indonesian politicians wanting to look like strong men in front of their electorates and the international community than it is about any specifics of this case with the Australians in particular.

1. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/indonesia-got-its-...

I think the point was phrased incorrectly. Widodo sacrificed the lives of these convicted drug smugglers for his own political gain.

To your point about not having a say in Indonesian law, you're somewhat shortsighted. There are diplomatic means of influence such as sanctions and other agreements.

Furthermore, as an individual we have a right and an obligation to advocate for what we believe in, regardless of legal jurisdiction. That's how our global society evolves.

Why is Indonesia trying so hard to save their own citizens from death row in other countries? E.g. in Saudi Arabia where they are being kept for drug related offences? Try to explain that one in all your sovereigness and self-righteousness.

1) In relation to the two Australians, the Indonesian judges were ordered by Jakatra not to take bribes but hand out the death penalty which I like to see questioned in an international court.

2) The two Australians were taking drug "OUT" of Indonesia. It doesn't make it right, but a death penalty? It's obvious there are other motives here, which again, I'd like to see questioned in an International court.

3) The only reason the Indonesian authorities were able to apprehend the Australians (9 at the time) was because they were tipped off by the Australian Federal Police, not because of their own competence, which is yet another reason why this must be questioned in an international court. Why did the AFP not simply arrest them on their arrival in Australia? This is obviously the Australian government doing a favour to the Indonesian government. One can only speculate the motives (terrorism?)

There's always a risk of a false positive. People get framed. Police or prosecutors may be corrupt or just pushing for a harsh sentence on shoddy evidence. Judges may be looking to please elected officials who want strong penalties handed out in order to set an example.

The latter seems to be happening in Egypt. People are being sentenced to death en masse, hundreds in a single judicial session, on vague charges of rioting: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/04/egyptians-r...

There are wrongly convicted people on American death rows: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32178121

The death penalty opens a door for the darkest kind of abuse by states against their people. It should not be used as punishment anywhere.

How do you know that the extremely harsh penalty is what results in low drug use?

I don't know, but I sure would think twice about being involved in drug trafficking if the consequence was death. If most people think that way, then the access to drugs would be much lower.

Trafficking drug is not something you do because it sounds like a cool thing to do. Pretty much anyone who's trafficking drugs are in a desperate situation one way or another and they are being taking advantage of. Some people do it for the money yet others are not in a situation were they actually understand the consequences (youth is one of them).

We all make mistakes in our lives and most of us are not the same persons we were before we made those mistakes.

Your reasoning is misguided.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com