Tesla Motors Livestream

Does anyone have any experience with the pricing here and could elaborate a bit wether or not this is a good deal? This does seem enticing at first glance, but I am unfamiliar with any hidden costs there might be in going with a solar + backup system such as this.

> The details are up on the site: http://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/teslaenergy

I'm just seeing the normal Tesla homepage. Did they take it down to avoid stealing the thunder from the livestream?

EDIT: Back up now

Meanwhile, in lead acid battery land, a Trojan T-105 is ~$150 for a 6 volt, 225 amp hour battery, which you might comfortably cycle 0.9kWh each day for 5+ years. Use 12 of them to match the 10kWh Powerwall and it only costs $1800, replace them at the end of 5 years and you have about the same cost as the 10 year Powerwall. Powerwall is several times smaller and lighter and presumably doesn't give off hydrogen gas when you charge it or burst and flood your room with sulphuric acid if you get to freezing temperatures with a discharged battery bank (done that), so there are certainly plusses.

It just isn't the silver bullet I was hoping for. I've been putting off replacing my batteries in a cabin while I wait for this, I suppose I'll nurse them through the Summer and make a decision in the Fall.

For context, how much does a typical household use? Assume a central A/C, 4 tv's, fridge, washing machine, etc.

The innovation is all in the price.

"Can anybody who's familiar with the energy storage field explain the nature and magnitude of the innovation here."

-Not me but clearly this is v1.0 and likely v3.0 is where you will have huge impacts. Similar to a Tesla costing 35k for their v3.0. The giga factory will probably play an even bigger part here as batteries should scale better than cars. So battery v3.0 should be >>> than electric car v3.0.

I think that the driver behind this is to create synergy across tesla and Solar City. Solar City gets requests for storage, and the financing to distribute it, and the giga-factory has a lot of surplus production.

The production of wind and solar energy for the consumer is quickly approaching (or, depending on your tax regime, has already passed) the cost of traditional energy from the grid. This is great, and we're starting to see wind and solar become major forms of energy production. The problem with both forms of energy is that the energy generally is not generated when it is consumed, so it must be stored.

The problem with storing electricity is it is expensive. The cost of this lithium-based solution finally is cost-competitive with lead-acid. Basically, when the Tesla's Gigafactory is completed (their battery factory, being built near Reno, and expected to be finished in 2017) means that Tesla will be the lowest-cost provider of lithium batteries. Unfortunately, the size of the factory also means that they will have enormous excess capacity. Unless that capacity is utilized, their costs will eat away at their revenues.

This is their answer to this situation: they have excess battery capacity, and costs that are about 1/2 that of their nearest competitor, and there is a growing need for energy storage.

The real target of this announcement, if you ask me, is ERCOT, the regulatory body governing the Texas power grid. In general, Texas has enough power generation capacity for average load days. Unfortunately, they are running out of power plants for peak power days. Traditionally, these were natural gas-fired generators, while "normal" load was handled by hydroelectric, coal, and nuclear (because natural gas used to be more expensive than the others, and also because natural gas generators can be turned on and off over the course of minutes instead of hours or days, like the others). However, as natural gas prices have dropped, most of these power plants that used to be used for reserve power have been reallocated towards baseline power--this is why Texas has enough baseline power generation capacity, but not enough peak power capacity. ERCOT released a study late last year that indicated that it would be cost effective for ERCOT to deploy regional battery storage devices instead of building new power plants to handle these peak power periods. According to financial estimates, ERCOT's power demands will result in >$4 billion/year in revenue for Tesla. Basically, it would appear that Tesla might end up making more revenue selling these solutions to power companies than they can selling cars to consumers.

All of this will lead to economies of scale, further driving down Tesla's costs and entrenching their position as the lowest-cost provider of battery storage. All of this also means that this battery becomes an attractive device for home use, as well. Basically, this is what a lot of people are thinking about when they talk about a "smart grid" that can push power back on the grid during peak demand times.

Here's a couple of articles about the ERCOT annoucement: http://www.texastribune.org/2014/12/15/state-law-could-short... http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060008712

Doesn't look like it since they don't quote anyone at Tesla officially.

This early line especially:

"Tesla was expected to discuss its plans at an event in Hawthorne, Calif., near Los Angeles, late Thursday."

Same for me... I'm wondering too.. ?

Seeing the same thing.

I'm thinking Elon is late to his own party.

At least the thumping techno beat keeps repeating.

These #royaltyfree #bangers really have me hooked

Twitter is lighting up with bored people complaining about the music. https://twitter.com/search?q=elon&src=typd

It's no bug. I'm sitting here at the event, reading Hacker News because nothing is happening yet.

They are obviously waiting for the end of the spurs/clippers game

Best info I've found so far: http://gizmodo.com/how-teslas-powerwall-stacks-up-to-other-e...

Living in Hawthorne, I really should be there in person, but here I am watching it in a low-definition Flash stream. So be it. Just quarantine it in a VM in the same way you would iTunes or any other quasi-malicious software.

provide a mobile User Agent and it will serve a flash stream.

Why this isn't the default, I have no idea.

Unfortunately there's still no stable/scalable way to deliver a livestream using HTML5 in chrome. Video on demand yes - live video no. We do it in Safari via HLS. Max (Livestream CEO).

I'm curious if they'll be indemnifying homeowners for fires originating in the battery pack.

Anyway, if it can clearly save me money and is not incredibly expensive up-front, I'll likely get one. Even if you actively conserve, electricity is decently expensive over the long run.

In the same way that very few people buy a $100,000+ Model S to save money on gas, early adopters of this product will be people who are a) well off and b) find the idea of converting their home to 100% renewable electricity appealing.

It might be. The significant return to individuals should come when they can participate in "ancillary services". These are classes of power contribution or absorption that meet short-term, urgent grid management needs.

For one example among many: if grid frequency drops below its nominal 60Hz, that indicates electricity demand exceeds supply, and the kilotons of spinning iron and copper in the generators that supply the grid are slowing down as they contribute rotational kinetic energy to meet demand. Grid management options for this type of demand/supply mismatch include calling for increased output from generators that aren't already at their max, engaging idle-output (but phase synchronized) spinning reserve generators, and buying power from contiguous grids.

Power sold under these circumstances can be priced at large multiples of base rates (like net metering rates) because of its high value in stabilizing the grid.

Smart grid infrastructure (communications, controllers, bidirectional inverters, etc) will allow grid managers (or localized intelligent algorithms) to draw on residential energy storage for ancillary services. These services should bring residential participants much higher returns than existing simple and not very lucrative net metering schedules. However, I imagine there will be significant legal combat before resident owners of distributed storage are allowed to recover market rates for their ancillary service contributions.

We have a fairly large 100% electric home built in 1980 (after the oil crisis government promised "all's going to be nuclear & cheap real soon now") ... don't underestimate the electricity & heatings costs on large properties

It really depends on where you live. In places like Arizona, this unit could pay for itself in a matter of a few years. Even if it is only used as a load shifter, it could generate great savings during the summer/hot months.

I've watched maybe 7 videos about him. Musk is too eager to throw employees under the bus.

It is this reason alone why I'd never buy a tesla.

put it on the inside of your house. It looks like art and doesn't take up much space.

Up here in the Yukon everyone has their batteries inside, else they'd freeze.

Tesla and Musk have been teasing the contents of the announcement all week; everyone knew what it would be, but not the specs/price.

I don't think the stock will be blow up again until we see sales and profit numbers for these new products.