Microsoft and Arduino Announce Partnership | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft and Arduino Announce Partnership

blog.arduino.cc

141 pointsschappim40 comments

It seems like this is just Microsoft saying that you'll be able to plug an Arduino into a computer with Windows, and it will not outright reject the hardware driver. Later in the post, it's a "this car comes with four -- that's right, FOUR! -- wheels" selling the built-in hardware capabilities of devices that run Microsoft software. Call me shortsighted, but I don't see the amazing thing here.

This isn't a problem for most boards some of the clones have problems with FTDI drivers and widows 8

There were a number of problems across all OS platforms with early (rev. 1 & 2) UNO boards and the Optiboot bootloader. I still occasionally see suspicious behavior, even with rev 3.

Yes, you're right, but also the FTDI problem[0] is rather related to "IP infringement" of sorts, and attempts to enforce claims to the IP by both FTDI and Microsoft.

[0] http://www.zdnet.com/article/ftdi-admits-to-bricking-innocen...

People in the comments seem overly negative. I personally this this is brilliant and sure if you don't like it don't use it. Simple.

It seems to clash with the philosophy of Arduino.

"What is Arduino? ... It's an open-source physical computing platform" [1]

They even list this as a selling point:

"Open source and extensible software"

Is this MS operating system going to be open source?

1 - http://www.arduino.cc/en/Guide/Introduction

It's not meant to replace the open source perspective of Arduino, it's meant to complement it.

It's a good thing, not a bad one.

From all we know its the classical Microsoft strategy: Embrace, extend, and extinguish. Remind me, why is this different this time?

Everyone should read Bill Gates' infamous memo Windows: The Next Killer Application on the Internet (January 1994):

http://www.microsoft.com/about/companyinformation/timeline/t...

Some notes: The Marvel product turned out to be The Microsoft Network (short MSN v1, not to be confused with later iterations of MSN web services): http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2306,00.h... . The Cairo operating system (aka Win96) was never released: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_(operating_system)

Rather difficult to extinguish an open source project that in no way depends on Microsoft.

The most annoying thing they could do is unsign the drivers somehow (difficult, since programming is done over a generic FTDI chip or directly in the case of the Mega32U4) and force people to develop using a different platform.

I suppose if everyone hopped on the Windows bandwagon and then Microsoft pulled their project, it would be an issue. For instance if suddenly you no longer had access to the services, but that's not really a killer.

You can buy Arduino clones from China - I've never paid the 'official' Arduino or Sparkfun mark up. You can make your own minimalistic board since the bootloader is freely available. You could even go barebones and learn to code for AVR chips without Arduino getting in the way (it's cheaper and leaner).

Worst case everyone runs to OS X and Linux.

> extinguish an open source project

Open source? Windows IoT requires Visual Studio and Windows (Windows Remote Arduino is a WinRT (WinRunTime) component). http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software

I interpreted the extinguishing part as getting rid of Arduino in general, not whether Microsoft pulls support for their IoT platform.

>Rather difficult to extinguish an open source project that in no way depends on Microsoft.

ahem, There was a court case about this sort of thing, U.S. v. Microsoft. Java wasn't open source, yet but I still think it is relevant to your first comment. The issue is not what MS can do to Arduino, but what MS can do that causes trouble for people on other OS platforms.

I'm not proposing that this is an MS strategy, but that sort of thing is not unprecedented in MS' past, so it's not unreasonable that some might be skeptical of MS' intentions. In reality, the open source hardware hobbyist movement is so small that it defies good sense to think it could be a critical part of a MS dirty tricks campaign. OTOH, maybe MS is really bullish for the IoT.

>You can buy Arduino clones from China - I've never paid the 'official' Arduino or Sparkfun mark up.

Good for you!

> You can make your own minimalistic board since the bootloader is freely available.

You're right in that the bootloader is a big part of the magic here. A freely available bootloader, and a barely-passable IDE (that runs on any platform) are the two things that set Arduino apart from all of the other similarly capable kits that came before it. If you appreciate the bootloader, you might consider paying the "'official' Arduino markup" at least once.

>You could even go barebones and learn to code for AVR chips without Arduino getting in the way (it's cheaper and leaner).

You could, but it's not cheaper, since you'll need an AVRISP, or something similar, you'll also need to spend a lot of time learning about microprocessor minutiae before you ever get to anything interesting.

No, worst case is more like Arduino focuses on MSVS interoperability and sort of abandons the cross-platform IDE; but it wouldn't make much difference now anyway. I hope it turns out well and ends up introducing more people to open source hardware; and I doubt it will cause anyone to adopt Windows over Linux or OSX.

In this case I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Now it _sounds_ like you're being snarky because I'm not directly supporting Arduino.cc, but my point was that the beauty of open source is that somebody else can produce things a lot more efficiently/cheaply than you can and there isn't one controlling entity. I do own an 'official' Arduino Leonardo, but when you can buy more from eBay for $3, it's hard to justify paying 6 times the price, plus shipping, from Sparkfun.

It is certainly cheaper in some cases: the Pro Micros run Mega32U4's which have built-in USB controllers; all you need is a micro-USB cable. I prefer to code for AVR directly for a number of reasons, and Arduino boards make excellent dev platforms once you replace the bootloader with LUFA or something similar. Otherwise a tinyISP is a few dollars from eBay (they're hardly clones, since there are no official suppliers anyway). You get the option of using Atmel Studio although it's Windows-only anyway.

I'm really not a fan of the Arduino IDE either, so if Microsoft wants to bring in Visual Studio support they're more than welcome!

>In this case I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.

I'm starting to suspect that you may not be in the primary target audience for Arduino.

>Now it _sounds_ like you're being snarky because I'm not directly supporting Arduino.cc

Yeah, kinda. I don't know you so I'm not really meaning to be too judgmental. I also purchase a few clones here and there, and I encourage others to do so as well.

>It is certainly cheaper in some cases: ...

Those are some good points, but I'll note that they (built-in USB, $3 ICSP doohickeys, etc.) are relatively recent developments; and sometimes beyond the capabilities of a lot of the Arduino's primary audience.

How is that good?

How is it bad?

That is not a good counter-argument. Anyone can do something that is not worthwhile.

The author did mentioned "it's meant to complement it", I assume that is good: use if if you like it, ignore it if you don't.

I guess the opinion of "not worthwhile" doesn't constitute good or bad either for the Ardruino community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

Assuming M$ is always evil is still a personal opinion, doesn't mean it's bad. Replace M$ with Google, Apple, Amazon or any other company doing the same thing, does it actually bring out any meaningful conclusion?

I assume better Ardruino support on Windows is a good thing.

Going from past data, though....

Arduino on Windows so far works pretty well as-is.

IMO some huge potential is missed by the community's collective lack of interest in leveraging Processing (or any other similar thing) to make GUI + open hardware goodies. MS has the potential to do some good here by integrating in an open source friendly way, or they could attempt dirty tricks. I'll encourage/hope for friendliness and interoperability.

Yes it's a good thing (for the tinkerers of this world) and I suspect its a long term view for MS. If young tinkerers can tinker away on some of the cool hardware out there leveraging MS products/tools for free (in the same way they can using linux tools) then in the future maybe some of those young folk will bring to this world some awesome startups also using the MS tool chains, a chain they may well be prepared to exchange cash for - but certinally a chain they will be familiar with.

Of course those not happy with that can fork the Arduino and its tool's - as far as I know they are all open.

Of course it may lead nowhere MS and they may well drop it when the return does not pan out.

My 2 cents...

Yes given the relatively small amount of space on ardunio using VS to write code for them seems over kill.

Integrating the Arduino firmware with a Windows GUI app will be a lot easier if the firmware was generated from within MSVS. I could imagine automatically generated bindings to hardware functions. I can also imagine an automatic custom "device driver" generator; and then maybe an all-in-one installer roller thing. There are some pretty cool possibilities.

It's more than that... even if you want to use it, you may not be able to do it.

See: http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software

Windows, Linux and Mac OS X.

Windows IoT requires Visual Studio and Windows (eg, Windows Remote Arduino is a WinRT component).

If this was about interacting with a Windows phone from any of the development platforms Arduino supports, that would be different I guess. The way this is designed looks divisive and it doesn't follow Arduino open philosophy.

This helps Microsoft to attract Arduino users, but I'm not sure if it will help Arduino as community. When you find a sketch or a library I have never seen a "Windows only" or software requirements besides the Arduino IDE or other libraries.

It doesn't look too different from the "Arduino Certified" program, as in "open source" is not a requirement; but I can understand all the negative comments.

Give it some time. Visual studio isn't exactly a cross platform app, and Microsoft doesn't have another tool platform to build off of. The release of Code today is interesting in that regard.

That's the Ballmer induced PTSD. It may take a generation for MS to recover. I want it to be brilliant, even though I'm not sure what it is. But, MS gets the skepticism it worked so hard to earn WRT to attitudes from open source folks.

You know, there's a lot of insight here in this comment, and I think a lot of the moves made by Microsoft WRT open source in the last few months is in direct response to this (deserved) attitude.

Microsoft is reacting brilliantly to the new open source world. I will not regret this, however; open source community have to be more careful about being controlled by an proprietary company. It does not matter if it's microsoft or any other proprietary company.

We have to stop it.

Exactly what does "proprietary company" mean?

I think you're mixing terms. Proprietary is for software. And Microsoft releases both open source and proprietary software.

So, which Arduino is in this partnership?

As it has been posted on arduino.cc, it's the framework/community guys, not the hardware guy

Thanks, I keep getting confused...

Massimo was mentioned, I'll assume Arduino.cc.

The original team, not the one who hijacked the trademark.

It feels like another round of Windows for Smart Cards. Who knows, this one might stick. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd277375.aspx

This does seem similar to the Android Open Accessory Development Kit which was also based on Arduino.

For those interested in integrating Arduino with sensors from Android devices, check out 1Sheeld:

http://1sheeld.com/

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