Ask HN: What is the point of asking for references while making an job offer?
Is interview process not enough? Also, I will only give references from people who will give me a good reference. What is the point?
Me: So, how would you rate this candidate on a scale of 1-10?
Reference: Oh, around a 9.
Me: A 9? That's great! Tell me, why not a 10?
Reference: [... here's what you actually listen to here ...]
Sometimes it goes this way:
Me: So, how would you rate this candidate on a scale of 1-10?
Reference: Absolutely a 10, no doubt about it.
Me: Outstanding! But seriously, there's got to be something he's not perfect at...
Reference: [... again, the truth generally emerges here ...]
Once people have given you what they feel is a good reference, like a high score out of 10, they're generally fine with talking frankly.
In addition, if the role's really important, you don't stop with just the references they gave you - you note them and then you continue digging, especially if there's people they really should have given as a reference but didn't.
Funny side note, one individual has used me many times over many years as a reference and has received the same feedback each time. I have even told him in person and in writing not to use me as a reference. Some people just don't learn.
Some people are frighteningly good at bluffing their way through things like interviews, through techniques like reading body language cues from the interviewer and telling them what those cues reveal they want to hear. (Jon Ronson's excellent book The Psychopath Test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopath_Test) profiles several people who mastered this kind of thing.) So it's useful to have ways to validate a candidate's bona fides that are external to the interview.
> I will only give references from people who will give me a good reference. What is the point?
Just the fact that you can rustle up two or three people who are willing to say nice things about you tells the employer something positive, namely that you have not spent your career burning every bridge after you crossed it. If you can't even get over that low hurdle, it provides cause to wonder if working with you is more trouble than it's worth, regardless of how sparkling your technical credentials are.
But you're right; who would offer up anything but a stellar reference?
I worked at a shit company as their first data scientist. They later hired a boss for me whose references said he was very difficult to work with. It turns out that when even your references say you are very difficult to work with, you are, indeed, an asshole.
I left on bad terms after having a horrid relationship with the asshole and blaming the director of engineering for hiring him even after the warnings from references.
The best places I have worked don't ask for them and don't check them if you provide them.
The interview process involves taking lots of weak signals (you can't tell much about a person by talking to them for ~30 minutes) and trying to take a hire/no hire decision. Every little thing contributes to this decision. When people give more importance to incorrect signals, you end up with a bias (which can end up reducing diversity in the work place).
Social proof, peers and superiors who can vouch if you're the real deal. Also, it provides additional insight into your skills-- how you think and act.
Question: If we were going to create an executive development path for this individual. What areas could they work on? What strengths could be bolstered?
If a company is having difficulty deciding which of two individuals to make an offer to, references are usually the deciding factor. If more job seekers understood this, they wouldn’t view the phrase “references provided upon request” so casually.
http://www.jobdig.com/articles/843/The_Real_Purpose_of_Refer...
My wife's current boss (Professor) has an interesting technique. If he has a good postdoc, and wants them to get a faculty job, he writes a reference letter and starts it with something along the lines of "You should not hire this person, and here is why: ". If nothing else it makes sure someone reads the letter, and he has a very high rate of success this way. Roughly 75% of his postdocs get hired for faculty positions in a field where less than 15% of postdocs go on to get academic jobs.
These of course could be fabricated but gives you an extra peace of mind.
And then of course you may actually call and speak to these people.