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That's great if you come from a place like that that you can return to. Not everyone is so lucky.

Those of us who grew up in big cities and moved away often have nothing to return to, nor would staying have helped. I'm an only child, and my parents are still together, but no longer live where I grew up. Everyone I knew from my childhood is scattered throughout the country. The neighborhood I grew up in was bulldozed and is now luxury condos. This is a common story among millennials.

People ultimately want a sense of belonging to SOMETHING. We're jaded about many of the traditional societal support structures like religion, marriage, work, or politics. As a result, many millennials identify with brands instead. Branding is enormous among millennials, even when looking at cohorts from previous generations at the same age. It's how millennials express their personality -- not by being creative, but by mashing up things that are already widely popular into our own identities. There are even counter-culture brands that let you identify with hating everything about consumer culture.

What do you do if you're not from anywhere? You don't know how to belong to a tight-knit social group because your friends have been disposable your whole life (and vice-versa). So you drift along in a consumer-oriented delirium, and if you're lucky you can join your life with some other lost soul so you're not so lonely. You are ambitious because let's face it, what else do you have going on?

So is it any surprise that people eat up what the media sells them? For many people, there's not a more attractive alternative.

I see where you come from, and sympathize with your situation. I am also aware that what I am going to say does not and cannot apply for everyone. But speaking exclusively about your case...

You really need to learn how to think on your own.

If you just follow the script you are provided by default, they win and you loose your soul. In practice, doing something about it for many people means jumping from the pan that is mainstream culture into the fires of the alternative counter-culture scene.

Once you do that, it does not mean that you will automatically be given a ticket to Nirvana. Instead, you will find a different group of puppeteers who will try to feed you with a different script. Trust in your gut and challenge everything you are told. After you have done it a few times, you will be able to pick up the common patterns and the differences between the foundational myths of each tribe.

At the end of day, you never will see reality as it is. We are social creatures and we always experience reality as socially mediated phenomena. However, once you have switched lenses a few times, you begin to grasp how each leans distorts reality, and your mind begin to make corrections.

(I learned this be virtue of have been raised a devout Catholic. University and Science delivered terrible blows to my world view, which caused significant pain during my early twenties, but this prevented my imagination from being too caught into the modern myth of Progress).

Once you have tried maybe a dozen lenses, and picked up two or three that let you see reality in a way that is both useful and meaningful to yourself, then you might be able to try and make a new lens from scratch. Most people never reach this far; I am 39 and at least know I am quite far from there yet.

> So is it any surprise that people eat up what the media sells them? For many people, there's not a more attractive alternative.

I have given you one alternative, but there is a price. When time is due, please pay it forward.

I find this entire premise to be so sad. I was especially distraught reading when you stated: "You don't know how to belong to a tight-knit social group because your friends have been disposable your whole life (and vice-versa)"

It seems logical to me that basing a relationship off of branding would lead to transient and shallow relationships. You should seek to have a better way of self identifying with people. Say perhaps by the type of person they are instead of the collection of things they own.

I would also say that the term "friends" here is a misnomer. These are not friends, these are acquaintances, or people you met once. Friends are people you are intimately familiar with - not in the sexual term of intimate, but in that you have an emotional bond with them. People for whom with distance and time, this bond fades slowly. If you have no friends, it's time to get out of your shell and join clubs, do activities, make friends, form bonds relating by personality, ethics, values. Forming bonds based on you both being Apple disciples or both drink Pepsi seems remarkably disconnected to me.

Well said, I think a lot of people (especially teenagers and young adults) form bonds based on their affinity to certain brands. IMHO, they haven't really developed a strong sense of self and an identity just yet, so it is easier for them to find community this way.

But I don't think that forming bonds this way, or attempting to, is sustainable in the long run. Like you alluded to, those friendships are superficial at best.

I dislike those tight-knit exclusive social groups that do not welcome new members. They are cliques more than anything. One true friend is better than a group of close-minded people who consider you one of them.

Living a nomadic life or in big cities does not prevent you from making deep connection and maintain relationships with others. It just requires you to have the ability to love others, and higher skills at forming long-lasting friendships. It's can be harder than if you were living in a small village, but definitely possible.

Millennials having grown up with internet friends and now entire social media networks may just be overwhelmed with the day to day situation of the normal local mundane day job, and the immensity of internet social networks. There's opportunity out there in many different realms, either via materialistic pursuits, socializing, artistic endeavors, education, entertainment, video games, logging off and going for a walk in your city.

Lots of millennials are sedated with the hugeness of internet life. There's a great sense of restless apathy amongst the generation, and an easy way to revitalize your life on the surface is through toys and shiney fabric.

Or by moving to the country, growing your own food and getting some chickens and doing something that adds real value to your life. Nurture something (anything) meaningful and you will find meaning in your life.

What makes you mad about society? Find a meaningful way to do something about it. What are you passionate about? Find a way to contribute to that. What is missing in your community? What can you offer to help make it happen?

Look for ways to provide real value to other people's lives - I don't mean helping them to live the same meaningless life you're expressing apathy for, look to make a real difference. It's amazing when you give yourself to others how that generosity is repaid with real friendship and a sense of kinship with others.

>...they know is that they have everything that's important in life - family, friends, community.

Well, there also seems to be a certain population of humans where "family, friends, community" does not bring contentment and fulfillment.

Think of a married man with children who often has thoughts of driving alone into the sunset and never turning back. It's only societal norms that keeps him from acting out his plans. When he was younger, his parents and friends had convinced him he'd be happy once he "settled down" but now he feels he's been sold a lie. Now what? Is he defective? If society forced him to watch "It's a Wonderful Life" ten times would he finally have a George Bailey (Jimmy Stewart) moment shown at the end of the movie[1]? Would he slap his forehead exclaiming, "yes I was so stupid. I should just be content with my family!" ?

Maybe there are some people who can't have that Hollywood ending. Instead, they live in a perpetual "Death of a Salesman" loop.

Maybe some folks must pursue a purpose and chase a dream and if they don't, "family and community" mean nothing to them.

>I was the ambitious one, the one that strayed far from home, chasing the dream, getting caught up in the consumerism.

But there's also ambition without the "consumerism".

In any case, let's say we have 2 types of people that don't know what "true happiness" is:

1) the person who chased life in the big city, got the Harvard MBA, the prestigious partnership at XYZ Law Firm, the whole brass ring. He realized it was all a waste and it was family relationships that he neglected that was really important.

2) the person who settled into family life and realized he's not really cut out for domestic living. Since society doesn't allow him to return his wife & children for a refund, he feels "trapped" in his boring existence. He lost his chances at "making something of himself".

It looks like the article we're discussing, and Hollywood movies, and most of the HN comments here are biased to scenario #1. It's like scenario #2 is a taboo subject.

Are we smart enough to self-reflect and know which type we fall into so we don't turn into 40-something zombies living with regrets?

[1]https://youtu.be/-0h50v7UNJc?t=2m9s

> Think of a married husband with children who often has thoughts of driving alone into the sunset and never turning back.

Oh, I've been there, a few times. The thing that stopped me ultimately wasn't "societal norms", it was that in all reality, the sun was shining, the road was empty, there was peace in the moment. The quiet and tranquility of being alone a stark contrast to the chaos and turmoil of home [you can only live in a state of chaos for so long before your brain can't cope with it any more]. Running off into the sunset alone serves no purpose though. Perhaps you settled down too soon, perhaps you've not yet learned to find the joy in being "settled down." I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, I'm not saying don't drive off alone into the sunset and never turn back. What I am saying is that the grass is only greener on the side of the fence that you nurture it. Of course, your life may be amazing, you may love your job and you may love your family, friends and community - but everyone needs a vacation occasionally.

I don't think #2 is a taboo subject, Meatloaf wrote a song about it[1] :-) it just doesn't make for an interesting story for a movie. It is also a self fulfilling prophecy to 'turn into a 40-something zombie' so you have to be careful there.

[1] Paradise by the Dashboard Light - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C11MzbEcHlw

> Think of a married man with children who often has thoughts of driving alone into the sunset and never turning back.

Once you make the choice to bring little ones into the world, it's not just about you and your pursuit of your happiness anymore. You don't ride off into the sunset not because of society's norms, but because if you did, what about those little kids? Should they be dumped by the side of your road because they're interfering with your happiness?

You made them, you owe them something better than that.

>Once you make the choice...

Right... but my comments were about the messages we get from society before we make that choice. It's how society (e.g. magazine article of this HN thread) can distort that choice.

>, what about those little kids? Should they be dumped by the side of your road because they're interfering with your happiness? You made them, you owe them something better than that.

You misunderstood what I'm saying. I wasn't talking about ethics. The husband could stay with the kids because of societal norms, or stay because he feels personal responsibility, or stay because his kid knows how to reprogram his Android phone. It doesn't matter what the actual reason is or whether that reason is noble or trivial.

My point was that the author of the article is putting forth a narrative about happy town life and it's heavy-handed enough that it comes across as a prescription for how to live. It seems as if she's not acknowledging that there are certain types of people who will not be happy prioritizing relationships over ambition.

That sort of blind spot is expected right? Isn't it normal for people who are happy to analyze why they're happy and then conclude it's the friends & family? Therefore they project that friends & family for others will likely make them happy too.

As a result, you get a lot of articles/movies/advice like hers playing up the family/friends/community narrative. It's not offset by any articles that advise a reader to diagnose if one's disposition is even compatible with that type of life.

Fair enough.

If I'm hearing you right, your point is that we should be careful about society only crafting one message about happiness, because we could lead that man into the wrong unhappy situation.

I do think the evidence is pretty strong that friends/community is correlated with happiness, though it's an interesting theoretical question whether or not it's correlated without causation.

People who tend to be happy might also tend to like being part of a community.

I do believe the relationship is causative, but admit it's a hard thing to prove.

I doubt there are many people whose lives are not bettered by friends & loved ones.

The hitch, I think, is when we try to prescribe how & when people should acquire them.

E.g., your culture pushes you into marriage at a young age "because having a spouse and kids will make you happy" when in reality having the right spouse will make you happy and the wrong one won't. Since you were pushed, maybe you didn't make a good choice in spouse.

Similar things could be said about shallow/forced/artificial friendships. While everyone benefits from good friends, what those friends are like and how you find and bond with them differs for different people

So maybe it's important to deliver the message that people are what matter, but also important not to try to force when or who or where, and let people find their own way.

uh, yeah, that's his entire point. the individual feels trapped - he can't just abandon his family.

that's what a trap is - you can't escape.

Fine. I can't argue that people feel genuinely trapped in this situation; it happens all the time.

I would point out though that the original conversation is about community rather than children per se, and that this is a situation the man in question (usually) chose to enter.

That he might have made the wrong move is more his fault than society's for having misled him about what would give him happiness.

I don't think I even heard the word "regret" until I was like 30. Where/when I grew up, you went to the best schools, got the best job, and settled down as quickly as possible. People who were unhappy simply didn't want to be happy, like it was their choice.

I don't really care bout "making something of myself" but to the extent you're going to be settled, one should ensure that they're happy WHERE they're settled. In the end I've learned that no one really gives a fuck about me. Not my parents. Not my brother. Especially not my wife. Maybe my kids, too young to tell. Doesn't matter how much I water my grass, I planted the wrong variety and ultimately it's kids (and poor health) that keep me rooted.

Sometimes I think I'm the only person in the world who had kids so I could give THEM happy lives and only when I realized that others didn't did their actions start to make sense.

> 1) the person who chased life in the big city, got the Harvard MBA, the prestigious partnership at XYZ Law Firm, the whole brass ring. He realized it was all a waste and it was family relationships that he neglected that was really important.

> 2) the person who settled into family life and realized he's not really cut out for domestic living. Since society doesn't allow him to return his wife & children for a refund, he feels "trapped" in his boring existence. He lost his chances at "making something of himself".

From my work with the transgender community, I know several people who escaped into both of those lifestyles because they didn't know how to deal with who they are or were afraid to do so and, later in life, still found themselves profoundly unhappy.

They end up, in their 40s or 50s, trying to do what they wish they could've done when they were younger, only now they have an albatross around their necks that makes it even more difficult to pursue their happiness.

I guess I'm lucky in that I've never been either career-oriented or family-oriented. I have my friends and my hobbies, and I dearly love both, but I never had any desire whatsoever to either start a family or climb the corporate latter, and that's worked out well for me. I have lots of free time, and I have so little attachments that I was able to reinvent my life last year with minimal fuss.

Scenario 2 is hardly taboo. It's a Hollywood trope

You really don't have to get caught up in consumerism to enjoy a city hub life, though I know it's hard and I've been there. If you're entirely happy about your small town friends, I'd say staying might be a good idea, but then a big city offers great opportunities for learning and opening your mind that don't depend on getting a fancy car: you'll meet fascinating and diverse people, places and teachers for whatever profession or hobbies you pursue.

Indeed, I'm just saying that having done all that and having been the one to say "there is more to life than this" and leaving in search of it, the conclusion I've drawn from the endless pursuit of ambition is to come full circle and realize: The more to life you're looking for was right under your nose all along, you just didn't realize it.

So long as you fit in those small-minded norms, you can go back and enjoy those things... given my hometown, that'll go fine so long as you aren't gay or nerdy or so many "different" characteristics. I'm sure you'll be very fulfilled at the trailer park you live in near the industrially-contaminated river while going to your minimum-wage job wiping old people's asses or working 14-hour days picking crops, competing against illegal migrants for wage, will really make you look forward to going home and communing while the neighbor's pit bull barks for hours while you try to sleep.

Yeah, small town life is so much better.

The last part of your post is overly negative. Small town life can be much, much better than that... though there are numerous poor rural areas where your description would fit.

The first part is spot on. I'd say it applies to most or perhaps even all human communities. We are hive animals, and our communities are only loving and welcoming if you are "one of us." I have never seen a lasting attempt to transcend that. Doing so would probably make us infinitely happier, but we are slaves to our inherited instinctive wiring.

So if you don't fit in, the big lonely machine is better than the small lonely persecution of your origin.

"I'm sure you'll be very fulfilled at the trailer park you live in near the industrially-contaminated river while going to your minimum-wage job wiping old people's asses or working 14-hour days picking crops, competing against illegal migrants for wage.."

I agree with you, but let's not overlook that life in a (world)city can also fit this description (replace picking crops with any menial labour). So the chips have to be stacked somewhat in your favour to benefit form these liberties.

A major benefit of leaving is to live free of parochial judgement (it is singular!) - just as you describe. Also the cultural benefits also are great - for whatever definition of culture you prefer. Still, returning to see family feels like playing out Rilke's Prodigal son short.

You'd think after living outside the box for a while, you'd learn to think outside it. Just because you live in or move to a small town, doesn't mean you have to have a low paying dead end job just because it has (or doesn't) benefits or you can be part of a union. There are ways to carve a niche for yourself that is meaningful to yourself and your community that will allow you to live a comfortable life.

There is nothing wrong with "wiping old people's asses" as you put it. My mother took care of ailing elderly people for years, and the world is better off because of it. And one of the kindest people I've ever met was a nursing assistant who helped me to the bathroom after I had surgery. Please be careful about looking down on valuable work just because it doesn't pay well or fit your idea of what a good life should include.

Edit: Oh, and by the way. My parents lives in a trailer park and they are very happy there. They no longer have a house full of junk and a yard that requires many hours every week to maintain.

I mean really need: Clean air, clean water, shelter, nutrition, sanitation, family, community, companionship

Interestingly, big cities are bad at offering those. They are polluted, expensive (especially real-estate), fast-food, short-term relations, and bad-lack of services is common.

Sure you can get some quality and "top-notch" food, but you got to pay lots of premium for that.

Big cities are the pits at offering these. While they offer a wealth of culture, it's not really culture, it's some simile of something that looks kind of like some interpretation of what the presenter thinks culture looks like... the food, the art, the music. It can be awe inspiring and suck you in. You can get your hands on anything you want at a moment's notice, from fast food to "love" [you know that doesn't mean "love", right?] and anything in between, all you have to do is get out your wallet. Relationships are fast and loose, you barely know your neighbours - if indeed you've ever seen them through the peephole on your door, because lord knows you've never knocked on their door and said "Hey, I'm your neighbour, I just wanted to say hey, here's a cup of sugar". Your shoe box is worth a million bucks, you can stand in the middle of the room and touch both walls without moving. Your bed is hidden in a bookcase because it's the only way you can have living space and a bed. That's a million bucks... for a shoe box because *location, location, location!" For what? Because you can earn more money and climb the corporate ladder... except you get your pay cheque each month and it's all gone because living expenses in the city are through the 36 square feet of roof you can afford.

Meanwhile that guy living on minimum wage out in the country because that's the only job he can get has a shit paycheque that goes just as far as yours which has 2 more zeros on the end, he doesn't have to fight for room on the subway for the hour each way it takes you to get to work, he can drive to work in 5 minutes, his 1,500 square foot house costs him barely anything, it's on an acre of land, he grows all his own produce and has a cow for milk, yogurt and cheese and chickens for eggs. He hunts now and then to put meat in his freezer and needs for nothing. He knows and loves everyone and they all know and love him right back. If he has a fall or loses his job, everyone around him rallies to help him get back on his feet. What happens when that happens to you? [Of course, I don't mean you you, I mean hypothetical you that lives in the big city chasing the dream]

You're right to put happiness in terms of needs, instead of wants. There is this psychological system called Nonviolent Communication (NVC) that relies exactly on making this distinction between needs and wants. They have identified a list (an inventory of basic human needs). https://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory

Seeing this list of needs I'm wondering what kind of positive 'thing' doesn't fit in it one way or another. Didn't find any 'wants' inventory in there or anything else that could enlighten me on the distinction. If you don't mind, would you care elaborating a bit on that?

One thing I would likely miss living in a small forever is the intellectual input. Sure, it is nice to have exchanges through the Internet for that, but sometimes it is good to have some intriguing discussions with other driven people.

OTOH, the vibe/'cutting edge' in big cities is just a fad/false religion more often than not.

But I do think it is easier to find like-minded people or people to connect to in bigger social groups.

I agree. Pepe Mujica, President of Uruguay, gave a heartfelt speech a while ago. He argues exactly what you say and asks the most fundamental question: What do we actually need? The speech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYkaV-dN2Sg