Why Americans Are Going Abroad
medium.com
medium.com
Which given the UK population of 64 million, is a massive diaspora and completely dwarfs the 7.5 million foreign-born residents in the UK.
edit - these figures led me to the sobering conclusion that here in the UK we should really be keeping quiet about immigration and hope nobody notices
I had no idea there was such a massive diaspora going on.
If you look closely at UK newspaper comments/letters complaining about immigration, quite a few of them are from people living in Spain. And one of the more notorious anti-immigrant columnists lives in Florida, IIRC.
- a positive net immigration rate into the UK has been critical in continuing to develop our economy,
- those people from the UK living in Spain will, mostly, be retired people,
- those newspaper comments will complain bitterly about immigrants not contributing, stealing welfare, and so on. Which is exactly what those people complaining are doing, and exactly not what the people they complain about are doing!
Like many newspapers the author is trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigrant. The reason we are talking about border controls is because yes most come from Mexico. The typical person who is here illegally is Mexican, over 60% are from Mexico. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_Unit... Add in central America and around 75% of people coming illegally are from southern border. I can understand their motivation. What I can't stand is trying to present BS.
When they author is trying to obscure facts one must wonder what other stats he is omitting or only half presenting.
As for taxes. Yes taxes suck. They also fund a ton of things that make American #1 in many areas. Should Americans abroad pay as much as American at home, of course not. But they clearly should still pay. You have a great passport and can come back to a country that has a wealth of opportunities that are not available in most other places and in some cases no where else. Why should you get to pay nothing while the rest of Americans maintain the great country for you to come back when you please? Maybe we should make it cheaper for people to renounce their citizenship, they are not needed.
Note: I should have made two post splitting comment on the immigration stats and taxes in to two posts to see the up/down vote difference based on the issues.
> You have a great passport and can come back to a country that has a wealth of opportunities that are not available in most other places and in some cases no where else.
could be said about many other countries which don't tax non-residents on their financial affairs in the country in which they've chosen to live. So I think some find it hard to see how the US can justify it.
Now you mention it, renouncing citizenship seems relatively costly compared to e.g. the UK, though I have no idea what the average cost is for renunciation. Perhaps the UK is abnormally cheap! (EDIT: Should probably have pointed out that it's currently £144, or about $215.)
It would seem a shame if people felt they needed to renounce citizenship to avoid hassle/tax. Of course, some may argue that if they want to renounce at all, then perhaps they're not committed enough anyway, but I wouldn't argue that.
Canadians are not taxed abroad and they have better healthcare than the US. Same with Germany
No question that the USA has a lot of opportunities, but one thing they are #1 is sense of self-importance.
1. The US is the only country in the world whose citizens must declare and pay taxes even when they're living out of the country.
2. The paperwork involved is a royal pain in the neck.
3. Failure to do it subjects you to ridiculously high fines.
Reality is the US is not all that and you can get most if not all the opportunities you're talking about somewhere else maybe even better healthcare and unemployment benefits without having to pay tax to a country you're not even using the public services of.
I have multiple citizenship and I would find it unacceptable if any of the countries demanded more then their fair share or charges.
Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't.
Having to pay 2K to renounce you citizenship is crazy and the fact that a lot of people still do shows how bad the policy and taxes are.
Reality is owning a US citizenship in a foreign country when you have no intention of coming back is detrimental to your financial well being.
I'm not much for patriotism and other such niceties looking at it as a cold business transaction it is detrimental to the owner with very few benefits compared to other countries.
One could argue that growing up in the US gave you a lot of benefits (infrastructure, education, healthcare, security and so on...), and that paying tax (even if not living there anymore) is a reasonable price for this.
You can't control where you are born but you can choose what citizenship you keep so shop around for a better 'offer'.
I agree that from a practical point of view, it makes sense to shop around. I just disagree with the argument we hear sometimes "I don't owe anything to my country". It's not the same to be born in the US than let say a poor african country.
Actually they probably gave you more, growing up, like health care.
But the US is the only country to do tax people like this.
US passport a great passport? I don't think so. Is it a schengen passport? No. Does it allow easy movement to commonwealth countries? No (it isn't a UK passport.)
Hm... No.
It took me 4 years to obtain my Italian citizenship(from my mother). We almost had a court battle for them to accept a missing letter(literally).
As a resident of Italy, I'm going to say: yes, that was easy by Italian standards :-)
So yeah his kids were born in Italy, all grew up in Italy, speak Italian fluently (natively), went to school there etc, but eventually they all moved away as they don't have citizenship. They're now mostly in the US. They run businesses and all have advanced degrees.
My dad spoke with him a few times about getting citizenship but it'd be a very long process. They've essentially committed to a life elsewhere.
In other words, there seems to be absolutely no reason for them not to be Italians, other than some kafkaesque messed up bureaucracy that servers no actual purpose.
This kind of describes immigration bureaucracy anywhere and everywhere.
Here's Linus Torvalds on some of the hassles he had: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3655 (search for green card). That's the kind of person you should be laying out the red carpet for.
I'd given up on foreign consulates and southern Italian comunes before finally getting it.
The fact that US income tax is lower than those in most other countries means that such people will almost never paying any actual tax -- and, believe it or not, are even entitled to a tax refund from the US government.
So yes, it's a pain that the US makes me file tax forms every year. Or more realistically, the US makes me pay an accountant to handle this for me. But the odds of my having to pay income tax to the US are pretty slim, until/unless I'm making a ton of money, in which case I'm sure that my accountant will think of new clever ways to avoid doing so.
Not to the US, at least, but to the other country, yes. So going abroad is not a way to save money on taxes.
After you exhaust the foreign-earned income credit (which is roughly 90K), you're basically paying the higher of US and local tax. And it's not always lower e.g. Americans in Hong Kong will end up paying tax.
I've never heard of anyone getting a refund from this.
From the IRS website:
> Your foreign tax credit cannot be more than your total U.S. tax liability multiplied by a fraction. The numerator of the fraction is your taxable income from sources outside the United States. The denominator is your total taxable income from U.S. and foreign sources.
So no, one is not entitled to a tax refund, because the credit cannot be more than the total U.S. tax liability.
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/abroad/leg...
I don't know the details for people who have never lived in the US, but they are entitled to vote, being citizens.
Being forced to pay taxes is an unwelcome burden with few benefits, but you can vote if you live abroad.
Apparently even in the US the Democratic National Convention gives state-level recognition to Democrats Abroad, an organization for overseas Democrat voters.
Back on topic, I generally feel a little uneasy with the question of the migrant vote. Denying the vote to emigrants? Not good. Denying the vote to immigrants? Not good. Migrants (with inherently less commitment to a single state) effectively getting more votes per capita than non-migrants? Not good either! This is certainly just a highly abstract problem that probably deserves quotes ("problem"), but it should not be completely ignored in a world of ever-increasing international mobility.
In NZ we call Australia "the 52nd state", but perhaps it's now taken "the 51st state" title from Canada!
Oh wait, sorry, Americans aren't immigrans, they're expats. My bad.
Double standards on immigration are pretty shitty.
Millions of people want to come to America. Most countries don't have open borders I am not sure why America is expected to.
You're just as bad at treating immigration as a homogenous group like genuine xenophobes.
You do realise there are valid points to being against certain parts of immigration - which most people are, they're against certain parts of it.
For instance, these people aren't refugees, they are however treated as refugees https://m.facebook.com/MissionDawahSverige Even though they openly support ISIS.
I call them invaders or invasion force, but that's for a lack of a better term.
However Sweden treat them as refugees and count them as "children" - (yeah even with the beard)
But I'm also getting much closer to being willing to give up my US citizenship... The only benefit is that I can decide to go back to the US if necessary, and given the political crap there, that's an increasingly depressing thought.