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Comment by hikz | Hacker News Reader

Here in Denmark IT companies are extremely elitist. Tons of simple ASP.NET and Java EE jobs require a master's degree in CS or CE.

Contrast this with the coding bootcamps and "everyone can learn to code" culture in the US and you can see why innovation is so slow here in Denmark.

I am a CS student genuinely interested in compiler construction, distributed systems and programming language design so I don't feel I'm being forced to take a CS degree to get an IT job.

But I still think it's sad that you need an advanced degree to get CRUD web/business app development jobs.

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Innovation isn't slow in Denmark at all (source: I work for a Danish software company). Do you have any evidence people from these 'everyone can learn to code bootcamps' actually land good jobs or end up doing something innovating in the US?

I think the difference between Denmark and Silicon valley is investment money and the size of the domestic market. If the EU wants to recreate Silicon Valley, it's not tech they need to stimulate, but money.

I think trying to recreate silicon valley is like trying to recreate Hollywood or Mecca.

I can't speak for the bootcamps, but I know dozens of self taught developers working at Amazon and Google, and the large companies are typically more credentialist. I have no problem believing that coding bootcamps can result in high paying jobs.

I think it is common everywhere to have out of portion experience and education requirements for programming jobs even in USA. I don't have any CS education and nobody has ever asked me about my education. Though, I have been in business since 1997.

There's some of that, but I've also met quite a few self-taught programmers in the Nordic region. They mostly do have some very "solid" alternative credentials. One of the more common alternative credentials, which I think is a bit unique to the region, is the heavy role of people from the demoscene. If you look at programmers in many tech companies, there are a lot of demoscene people lacking university degrees who fill senior roles. This is more true outside the very traditional sectors, though; IO Interactive has more demoscene alumni than Danske Bank does.

Isn't this more of a supply/demand issue than anything else? Most my friends back in Poland are coders and engineers and they all have master degrees in their fields.

My thoughts exactly. A difference between US and Europe is that in EU countries a degree is cheaper (or completely free if you meet some financial and grades requirements), since it is subsidized by the state in many cases.

But I agree with the parent that it shouldn't be a discrimination, especially if you can demonstrate relevant experience in the field.

Despite the cost of tuition doubling in the last decade or so, the US still produces a vast number of college graduates. It ranks #6 in the world in terms of college graduates (assoc. degree or higher) per capita (behind Russia, Canada, Israel, New Zealand, Japan).

The US is also now producing twice the number of masters graduates per capita it was 25 years ago.

One thing that US isn't lacking for, is college degrees.

And when it comes to the free aspect - if that's so great, how come 3/4 of European countries have vastly lower college graduation rates versus the US?

Not free of opportunity costs, and even if the degree is free, you still have to eat and pay rent.

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