Some, but only a minority, really had not much of a choice. Either their family was very fucked-up and had botched their upbringing pretty bad, or they had gone down too low on drugs/alcohol.
And I'm not condemning them for choosing this lifestyle. Like I said, it does have its pros. It can be a good, exciting life, especially since you're in the US, where you can get a lot of society's excesses for free, when they are discarded.
Imagine knowing that there are lots of things you could, theoretically do with the resources you have at your disposal—but having none of the "willpower" thing that lets people do things that are even slightly boring or unpleasant in the short term.
Imagine wanting to learn skills that require practice, but being unable to invoke whatever mysterious forces cause this "practice" to happen.
Imagine being amazing at stupid skills that you got because their training mechanisms involve short reward loops (for example, video games) and knowing your own potential, and hearing over and over everyone around you tell you about that potential and encouraging you to use it, but just feeling a stab of "ugh" whenever you even consider starting that is utterly insurmountable.
Imagine, even, having skills that could get you a great, well-paying job (e.g. programming—something, as it turns out, that has a short-reward-loop method of learning) but then just not being able to work up the desire to apply for a job; to go to the interviews you applied for; to come to work on time each day; to do anything other than surf the Internet once you're there.
This isn't abstract to me—
I failed out of university. I was homeless on-and-off for a year and a half. I went back to live with my parents for a year. Then (at the age of 24) I got diagnosed with ADHD and put on a medication for it.
Now, two years later, I'm making $250K/yr working as a CTO for a financial startup.
Many people I met while homeless, looking back, also had all the signs of having had ADHD—or, if not that, then major depression, or a social anxiety disorder. None of them thought of themselves as having a condition; they just "didn't want to work." They didn't realize that what they "wanted" was in large part a function of what they would or would not flinch away from because of pain; and that their pain response to attempting certain things was not a matter of "character", not and not something they had failed to learn or needed to "work through", but a treatable handicap, like nearsightedness.
I wish I could take every one of them to the same psychiatrist I went to, but it took me eight months on a waiting list to talk to them. There are far, far too few practicing psychiatrists to help all the people that need help. Something about this needs to change.
I keep telling myself that I'm using it as an excuse and that it's really laziness, but if I'm intellectually honest with myself I don't really believe that. It's like I miss some hormone that motivates me, similar to perhaps a gay person missing the sexual attraction to the opposite sex and not having any way to change that, in a world where nobody is gay and nobody gets why you don't have that genuine, inherent attraction.
Feel free to elaborate a bit on how you eventually got out of this if you'd like, I'd love to hear more. Perhaps it'll help me, too.
Thanks for sharing in any case :)
Something huge that changed my work ethic was when I bought a whiteboard. I always have two lists on it. One of the lists is "Everything I need to do." This has things like 'pay my taxes by X date', 'call my insurance company and find y out', 'start this project', 'build that dream car i have always wanted to build'. Some of the stuff might always be on it, at which point I can start really looking at those things and figuring out whether I plan on doing them, how bad I want to do it, and if it's worth my time vs the other stuff I want to do.
The second list is titled "Today", and always leads with today's date. Under that are things that I should really do today, or at least try to start. Some times the things on it roll over to the following day, sometimes they get dropped back into the larger 'everything' list. But when I do something, whether it's "Take out the trash", or "Call Person X", I get to cross that thing off the list. It stays crossed out for the whole day until that night when I reassess my everything list, erase crossed out items, change the current date, etc. It has helped me stay on task and get things done tremendously. The whiteboard has had a tremendous impact on my productivity.
I'm serious sir/madam, few good insights ever come of the form "You have $difficult_problem, you just need to do X to solve it".
Personal example: I get done the stuff that I need to do, but for a good chunk of it, I hate every single minute of it. Example: I just got done with a number of uni assignments - they were not difficult, the material wasn't uninteresting, but I already knew the info, I already knew I already knew the info, so going through the motions to actually get credit for it sucks. As in "God, I wish I was doing just about anything else right now"-level sucks.
The way they described that bolt of "ugh" that stops any motivation to do anything substantial? That is my fucking life right now, and I can't put down into words how much I want to get that part of me changed. All the whiteboards and organized-ness and "discipline" in the world only ensures that you're getting things done (going through the motions) - it does nothing to ensure that you will enjoy the process or even necessarily the results of the process.
If you hate everything you have to do, what's the point in living?
As for the drudgery of University and crappy assignments- what, do you imagine "neurotypical" people love to do banal assignments that are below their skill level? Everybody hates make-work.
The risk with all this is that manic depression, ADHD, etc are mostly an extreme form of things we all experience, so it's not hard for people to convince themselves they have it.
As for finding enjoyment- University can be a slog. But I found once I had climbed high enough (and managed to drive myself to do the un-fun parts) it became rewarding. The thing is a lot of school is building foundations; the fun part comes later. That said, if your major is completely un-fun, you should reconsider your track. E.g., as much as advanced math was a complete chore for me, I knew I loved to design circuits, and I tinkered with them through all of University.
You haven't known "God, I wish I was doing just about anything else right now" until it's June, sunny, and 75 outside, and you are sitting through a four-hour-solid lecture on linear algebra. But it was worth it.
You don't understand what I'm saying here - there's actually "banal", and then there's applying that description to any action you could be doing at this moment.
A round of TF2? Meh let's try it.. nope, still bored. Go through my bug backlog on a couple of personal projects? Open the IDE and.. eww, forget that. Going for a walk? Boring.
All of these things are things I legitimately enjoy doing, it's just that more often than not, there's a lack of enjoyment there. Sufficiently stimulated, that problem almost completely goes away (large amounts of caffeine, energy shots, etc).
I really, truly doubt that this description of mental state is "normal" for most people.
Actually, yes. I say this for the simple reason that dopaminergic stimulants make banal things fun, with a linear correlation to the degree of their dosage. Everyone loves cleaning their apartment on enough Adderall.
If the dopamine-receptor-deficiency hypothesis of ADHD holds true (and it's a far stronger hypothesis than anything about depression et al.), then dopaminergic stimulants will act to emulate the neurochemistry of someone whose dopamine "set point" is naturally higher.
Or, in other words, a person with ADHD, taking a properly-calibrated dose of an ADHD medication, should experience the same level of motivation as a neurotypical person.
Which implies that if there is something that a particular dosage of a dopaminergic stimulant makes enjoyable, then people who naturally produce the same amount of dopamine endogenously will also find that task enjoyable. There are people who just love cleaning their houses, love banal assignments, love paperwork and bureaucracy. ("Love" being a bit strong—they experience no pain from it, and can get into a flow state from it somewhat like a video game. They probably won't say they enjoyed it, but they probably won't say they feel like they wasted time, either.)
The weird insight one gets from this is: if dopamine-receptor imbalance forms a normal distribution (as many people have more dopamine than is neurotypical, as have less), then there are a whole lot of people walking around who really enjoy make-work. And some of them make policy decisions.
Actually, no.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Getting on a medication is hard, and frequently shameful. It especially requires acknowledging, first, that you have a problem to a degree where you should seek help with it, rather than that you just "prefer to" be lazy. Because of this, people who have motivational problems don't tend to try the solution "getting on medication to fix their broken neurochemistry" until a whole bunch of evidence piles up to suggest that's the way to go.
An economist would say that, because the market is efficient, there is no money left lying on the ground—if you think you see some, it's either a fluke that will correct itself, or an illusion. Likewise, there's no "one simple life hack" that will actually solve any common, chronic problem humanity faces. If there was, it'd have reached fixation as common wisdom long ago. (For example: brushing your teeth to avoid them rotting away. It's a "life hack" that works!)
The only time something can be both "one simple life hack", something few people know about, and actually work, is if it's really hard to put it into practice. Practicing epistemic rationality is a "life hack" for avoiding wasting time, but you have to read tons of things and route around a bunch of your own neural circuitry to make it happen. Moving to another country is almost always a "life hack" for getting better job and relationship opportunities, but it requires uprooting a lot of your existing life. Etc.
The only "easy/surefire wins" in the market of personal health/well-being/productivity, are the ones you'd never try on a whim because they have too much of an upfront cost. The art, then, is in convincing yourself to feel "desperate" enough to try those things early on, rather than wasting time with the patent-medicine-style life-hacks first.
Or, in short, and by analogy: in a nutrition store, all the stuff that is known to work, is locked behind the counter. Things that work, unsurprisingly, have side-effects; frequently the side-effects are in fact simply corollaries or restatements of their effect! Anything with no side-effects, no costs, is extremely likely to also have no effect.
Now I'm 26 and take a pill 1-3 days each week I'm working. If you experiment, I wouldn't take more than 20mg of Adderall XR or 50mg of Vyvanse, and I'd start lower than that.
Best thing to happen to me.
If the reactions of "Just do it" and "Just be more disciplined" and "Just try this one weird trick" feel worthless to you, it's because they are. Everyone seem to has a judgmental opinion on this subject.
Beyond that, it's not something I can get (without risk of getting something wrong) without getting diagnosed first. And while I'm glad for that, I'm also really apprehensive to go through the whole process, of months of talking and self reflection and filling out personality forms and keeping diaries and speaking to psychologists. The lack of motivation I have is such a stupid problem because it kills any action towards solving it.
Really appreciate your post in any case, I've written it down and will look into it more.
but just feeling a stab of "ugh" whenever you even consider starting that is utterly insurmountable.
This, holy fucking shit, this! This problem, right here, is a massive thing in my life!
How did the diagnosis process work? You just explained your symptoms to your GP and they referred you or..?
Dropped out of college after losing almost all motivation to go to class or constantly forgetting things I had to do. This just started a cycle of self loathing and depression and feeling like a worthless fuckup.
Eventually landed a low paying job despite not having my degree and with the help of my SO, got through the long waiting period and other hurdles to see a doctor.
Got treatment, went back to school and finished my degree with nothing lower than a B in any class. Not making nearly what you are but where I live at least, the difference between $20k/yr and $60k/yr (especially as one half of a pair of "DINKs") is massive.
Medication to tweak the dopamine response curve isn't perfect but I have it to thank for at least enabling me to do the normal hard work of making it in life.
I assumed you were calling for the end of some form of social aid. The minimum wage portion of my comment could be extended to student loans or anything else. The point is that society has yet to provide decent options to every single person. Further, it's hard to work on something when you feel it's just garbage work you have to do because you're poor. The choices made by people with relatively unsavory options shouldn't determine their merit for aid.
Mental illness--yes.
I have not seen drug abuse as the sole reason for homelessness in my area.
I have seen Buddist monastery kick out 50 year old woman for not earning her keep.(yes, in liberal Marin this happened! She join the monastery when she was 17.)
As to using the system--what system? The one's I know don't see a medi-cal doctor when sick, and when they do, they are stigmatized, "He will probally sell the medication".
They all need dental work.
Yes, they use the Catholic chow hall. That is the system. Section 8 is closed. The one's I know don't even apply for food stamps.
The common denominator among the homeless I know is Lack of Suppport from family members! Most of us have had some rough patches(nervous breakdowns, gaps in employment, addiction issues) and usually have some family member that helps out. These people had no one to turn to.
Oh yea, I have seen family members do horrid things to brother/sister/mother/father. It usually involves manipulation of by a greedy member over Money. The greed in some of these stories is staggering. There is a complete lack of compassion in some families, and then there's the denial. "I had a bad childhood, I owe that women nothing!" "That kid has leached off of me too long!". "Let her sleep under the house, for now!"
I have head all these quotes. I don't know what causing family members(who could help) appear so indifferent, and in some cases appear to want to make bad situation worse? I can't blame lack of spirituality. Some of the worst offenders show up in church, and synagogue?
This. I've spoken to many homeless people - mostly in NYC but in other cities too. Whenever I ask about their family they always tell me that their folks woudn't pick them up. I once called the son of a drunk middle aged man on Brighton Beach. He didn't seem too particularly concerned when I told him I knew where his dad was.
I want to make a website where people can see profiles of homeless people, hear their story and sponsor them. I would have a very low cost operation: rooms in cities for homeless people, with a shower, computer, and food (soup etc). Homeless could use the room but would need to register their name, photo, biometrics (fingerprint etc) and progress through a program that would be a bit gamified. The steps would be somewhat personalized but essentially include the following tasks:
Register Go make an appointment with a psychiatrist Go meet someone who will help buy clothes, shower etc. Get a cellphone and an address Talk to a career counselor Apply for government assistance, with help Get an education or a job
They would receive cards and we'd see what they spend on. Their cards would be loaded with more money as they complete challenges. They'd be self motivated with 90% assistance from the program. I am a big believer in "smart tools" that make motivation easier and take care of 95% if all the research and logistics. The homeless person shouldn't have to figure out what they need in their backpack, what programs exist in their city and how to apply or take advantage of them. This hould be done by experts. And motivation should be optimized also, with human servie providers helping do evaluations and customizing.
I also believe in metrics and reporting, which the public funding the website would receive as people get off the street get a job and their stories of success.
Oh, I'll condemn the ones that choose it. If you're homeless because you have mental or physical problems that's one thing, but people who choose to be homeless because they're too lazy to work are parasites.
I don't agree at all. Some amount of laziness is normal, and the world is full of people without mental disorders that will do the minimum to get by. This is just the tail end of the curve.
Everybody has problems, and most of us still get up and go to work. Since we're not going to deny services to the ones who don't we should require them to work if they're able.
But anyways, they don't get a free ride especially in Puritanical America.
They don't? Where I live they get money from the county and free medical care. They occasionally get free beds in a shelter (which some of them refuse). When they attack each other the cops are left to try and figure it out. And the rest of us are paying for it all.
I'm not opposed to helping people who need it, but I think the idea people who behave antisocially ipso facto have some sort of mental illness and should therefor be supported by the rest of us is corrosive and wrong.
What gives you the right to classify people as parasites? I don't think paying taxes gives you that right in any circumstance.
What about large groups of people who pay lawyers more money than you'll ever see to figure out ways to take more to live off of you and never contribute back?
Does anyone who takes a tax break classify as a parasite as well? Are parents parasites until their kids are independent?
Why is it that someone who consumes no social services (no address/documents? have fun), besides an odd meal or night in a shelter provided from donations, produces such vitriol from you while an entire class of people exists that rake in trillions of dollars that are skimmed directly from your taxes?
Anyway, have fun dehumanizing a disadvantaged class of people on the internet.