FBI overstated forensic hair matches in nearly all trials before 2000
washingtonpost.com
washingtonpost.com
In fact over the past 20 years I've heard this story at least a dozen times-- where crime "labs" at different levels of government and in different states (eg: state labs, federal lagbs, etc) were caught doing this.
And when it happens, that isn't enough to get people to be able to appeal unless they have evidence the lab did it in their specific case.
One of the problems of our system is that the criminal system is lacks checks and balances. The judges, prosecutors, police all work for the government. They all have the same interests-- they all report to people who want to look "tough on crime".
Since the police immediately take over crime scenes and collect the evidence and then get the evidence analyzed, they have a lot of power to be corrupt in the interest of more convictions-- and the consequences are negligible for being caught.
Whose going to try a dirty cop? You can shoot a guy in the back on video and never get put on trial for it in this country. (I left Texas when a cop gunned down an unarmed black kid who was on his knees crawling away from him... shooting him multiple times in the back... on my college campus. The cop lost his job and then joined the police force in a suburb. No charges were filed. Apparently a black kid crawling away was "threatening" to the white cop. Alas, I moved to a liberal state and was then myself the victim state corruption- though fortunately, the damage was only $3k to a lawyer.)
This is why I think any evidence submitted in court needs to come from an independant lab, done in a double blind way, and with several audit cases sent to that lab regularly (eg: taking dna from people not involved in crimes and send it in as if it was part of an investigation and see if they are fabricating evidence.)
The idea that the government is independant and objective is to me, now that I'm older and have seen these scandals over the years, laughable.
Every time it happens everyone acts like its' a rare thing.
It's not.
The trouble in my opinion with some judges in my country and with the police in some countries is, that everybody just assumes, that because they work for law enforcement, they have a high level of integrity. But when you look how they are educated, the subject "integrity" is not even touched (I even don't think, that it is taught in law schools).
In my country, when somebody is already a judge, there is nearly no chance at all, that this person will be held accountable for misjudging. I think, not even the highest courts can replace a judge that repeatedly and knowingly is bending the law. At least I don't know of any case at all where a judge was punished or even replaced. And don't think, that all judgments are correct in my country.
In my opinion, when there is one thing to be learned from history, it is that any person can err and even the best meaning persons can change into dictators over time depending on situations.
I think the problem is there's a magical thing that happens to people when they think about government.
They somehow think it's ok for government to do things that individuals cannot. And once you give a group of people that magical power, it's easy to forget that they are people.
Today I am differentiating much more and I must admit that I am not knowing, why we are better of as for example South American countries. Of course, they have a high level of corruption, but when you look deeper, you will see, that we in Europe have also much corruption. The main difference: While in many South America countries everybody knows about the corruption, for example in Germany corruption is much much more covered -- but it exists, maybe even in the same degree as in South American countries. It is just covered much more. What makes me worry is, that while the normal police-men in Germany may have integrity, the normal top-politician seems to have none left. I can give no name of a top politician today, where I would assume, that he is not influenced or even bribed by some groups.
I think, that this gives a really bad signal to all the people in this nation. Many say: "Why should I pay taxes, for those crooked people?" And I must admit, that this is a strong argument in these times.
If things in the US started falling apart then I'm guessing folks would get upset and demand changes.
>If things in the US started falling apart ...
What exactly do you mean? Technically or society?
I think "falling apart" does not go by a click, but comes incremental. I see a lot of incremental decline in western societies at least from the 80s.
I also hoped, that people will go upset and demand changes. But I guess it is like the boiling frog. The frog feels comfortable in the lukewarm water and when it incrementally gets hotter, he does not recognize and when he does, it is just to late. We all are the boiling frog.
My concern is, that people are more upset when their favorite tv show is not view-able as when our democratic systems are eroding.
Yes, at the higher levels of power everything is dirty.
However, you have to look at what the consequences of that are, how it manifests in a society, and how far it spreads.
And in Germany, it works pretty well. Yes, enormous government projects don't always go to the most capable or efficient. Yes, big business owners contribute to politicians, avoid taxes, and erect legal obstacles to competition that would benefit society. However, the society basically works. The corruption is not interfering with basic services to the people. A journalist can write what she wants without fear of physical reprisal. Individual property rights are by-and-large respected. School teachers actually benefit the children. Police officers don't operate as a tax force on their own behalf. Thats not the case in every country.
So while I agree with you that even the 'best' countries still have a very real battle to maintain integrity, there is absolutely a spectrum and largely, North America and Western Europe are near the top of it.
When North America and Western Europe are near "the top of it" (I don't know, if I completely understand the sentence correctly, but I guess you mean, that they are best in integrity ...), than this is not a good sign in my opinion.
I see an enormous decline in democracy, freedom and integrity all over the world. And as I live in Europe, I see it very drastically here. Of course I am worried about developments in countries like Russia or China, but I am even more worried about the state in which the countries are, which should be role models of freedom and democracy.
> The history of the FBI Lab hasn't been without controversy. Dr. Frederic Whitehurst, who joined the FBI in 1982 and served as a Supervisory Special Agent at the Lab from 1986 to 1998, blew the whistle on scientific misconduct at the Lab. In a subsequent investigation, it was found that evidence had been falsified, altered, or suppressed, or that FBI agents had testified falsely, in as many as 10,000 cases, resulting in many false convictions. More than a decade later, cases were still being overturned because of this massive fraud.
Yes, the problem is that those "crime labs" are not scientists, they are basically scientists-turned-cops.
As you propose, those should be independent labs, perhaps private, that live and die by their reputation for results (and could be hit with a huge lawsuit if they're not careful, unlike a government agency).
And double-bind should be mandatory too.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/free-innocent/improve-the-la...
I've never understood how the possibility of new evidence doesn't immediately reopen a case (in general). I thought we wanted real, actual, blind justice based only on facts and absolutely nothing else. It turns out it is rarely that simple.
We, as the potential victims of injustice want a real, actual, scientific, blind justice system that presumes innocence and requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt, checked by a jury that can nullify laws, and the like.
Politicians want to be "tough on crime" so they appoint judges and prosecutors who get convictions. Judges want to be re-elected because they are "tough on crime" (in places where judges are elected) Prosecutors want to have a successful career so they will do anything they can get away with to get a conviction. The police want to have the case be off their hands and to be "closed" so that their stats look good because it's good for their career because the Mayor wants to be "tough on crime" and so the police find the first plausible suspect and try to build a case.
All these organizations are in cahoots, literally, and so no prosecutor is going to indict a judge or cop unless they absolutely have to.
So long as the public can be lead to believe they live in a society with the "rule of law" not the "rule of man" then nothing more needs to be done. And the public is very gullible! (Especially when you control the schools and you raise them to be gullible.)
IT's not that these people are evil. ITs that they are self interested.
The founding fathers attempted to put in checks and balances and they did a damn good job.
But over the past 200 years, they have been systematically eroded.
Things are clearly very backwards.
The problem was that the method they used, i.e. how they were taught, was incorrect.
So it's not so easy to throw it out as you might suspect - it's the job of jury to decide if the evidence is "good" (they hear lots of evidence, much of it conflicting). True, the jury relied on false information on what counts as good. But because the jury accepted the evidence undoing that is not as simple as you think unless there are specific laws about it.
Starting from that weak position, the FBI then ignores basic statistics:
http://freakonomics.com/2008/08/19/are-the-fbis-probabilitie...
The problem is, these things were indicators, but they have been manipulated to be used as if they were proof.
If the suspect is a red head male, and the witness describes seeing a red head male, then the jury is inclined to think that's the same guy.
IT's human nature.
Even in New York City.
Where there are at least 84,000 red headed males!
Yes, a strong preexisting demand and no way to fulfill it honestly. (Really, the first is doing most of the work.)
Same reason you get charlatans and incompetents in love spells, medicine, and longevity.
The main problem is TV I guess, for the average guy, these kind of technologies are completely infallible and people tend to forget that just like anything else, it's just an indicator that can be fooled / misinterpreted / badly gathered.
I'll go polish my tinfoil hat now.
Anybody proposing to make it double-blind is going to need to find the money, either from other departments or by raising taxes. Without a chorus of public support behind them, this is a very hard sell. And easily reversed after the next election.
“Beyond a reasonable doubt” is actually a decent epistemic standard. The problem is that juries and judges are not exposed to the information that would lead to reasonable doubt in these cases.
So basic epistemology already makes bad outcomes likely. Add the incentives (political, organizational) in cases like these, and terrible things happen.
(I am also of the opinion that corporate protections are largely bullshit and that executives and boards should be civilly and criminally liable for wrongdoings perpetuated by their companies. Probably the only way to make them act decently.)
I am certain >0 people would have checks bounce, payments declined, fees imposed on them. For many people $10 can be the difference between being able to afford rent, payment of utilities or other items that could cascade into affecting their life significantly. The poor are really susceptible to these type of accidents
Also, about 60 million of the US population are below the age of 14 (which given you got 3 bln dollars from $10, I'm assuming you're taking the whole ~318 million population), that means many minors just lost $10 that to them would likely be more money than they ever had or be a significant amount of money.
And that doesn't even go into other aspects of the theft, like the effects nationwide on everyone having money taken away from them. The erosion of confidence in the safety of their money.
I posit to you a likely scenario of what you described. Imagine if everyone citizen in the US were issued a government mandated ID with an associated federally insured bank account. Now, the whole scenario becomes viable, where a hacker could steal $10 from every citizen in the U.S.
Now, that would first create a huge debacle. It would most likely cause an immediate loss of trust in the online marketplace, cost probably billions of dollars in getting it fixed. It would end many people's careers, most likely lead to companies getting fined, economic stagnation depending on a cascade effect from a loss of confidence in markets. It's hardly a victimless crime.
Sure, we could keep diminishing the amount to something ridiculous till we're maybe talking about stealing 1 cent. Which would still be a fairly juicy pay off of 3 million, and that would erase away many of my points or at least reduce their incidence significantly. I'm sure some people would miss payments or have other inconveniences affect them. Likewise, the theft would have repercussions on many people's lives.
Even if I were to take the magical scenario of someone who magically made 1 cent disappear from everyone's wallet/bank account. That would still cause great impact and damage. "Are there more people like him with such magical powers?"
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have to look at the final magnitude not just the token value of the damage done per capita. And also look at the damage done by having affected so many people simultaneously.
> $10 that to them would likely be more money than they ever had
I have hard time to believe for most 14-year-olds $10 would be "more money that they ever had", in this day and age. For 5 year old, sure. But typical 14 year old not ever having a price of two sandwiches in Subway (or one in a fancier place, or a meal in a relatively cheap restaurant)? I don't believe it.
> I'm sure some people would miss payments or have other inconveniences affect them.
Like lots of people that had the balance of exactly 1 cent and had their rent payment of exactly 1 cent coming in. That doesn't sound ridiculous at all :)
I think you're reaching here. That's not the point anyway - the point is that these things are not just numbers, and are not directly comparable and workable using simple arithmetics.
Edit: I see now that the hn title matches the wapo headline, changing to reflect that. Still a bad headline.
Methinks the former case is one of the driving forces behind the "Bazaar" mentality.
Was it a partial match that they described as 100% accurate? did they hide the statistical probabilities? was the evidence faked?
http://www.retroreport.org/video/how-dna-changed-the-world-o...
The problem is all of these mechanisms are controlled by the government, which is the source of the corruption. Even voting-- I do believe that the voting machines are corrupted about 50/50- half for democrats and half for republicans. But that only serves to reinforce our one-party-with-two-wings system and exclude greens and libertarians.
I long for the day when all of the nationally televised presidential debates include the Libertarian and Green candidates. (At the 2004 & 2008 elections they put their differences aside and travelled to the debates and tried to get in, and got arrested attempting to do so as a protest of being excluded. And then had a libertarian-green presidential debate. Loved it.)