Comment by cpncrunch | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cpncrunch | Hacker News Reader

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I'm curious as to whether or not people here have actually experienced severe depression. From my own experience it does seem obvious that depression is extreme sadness. The experience is a more extreme version of what you feel during grief. That doesn't mean that depression is always caused by an obvious trigger such as a death of a loved one, or that it is easy to fix. (In fact, sometimes grief can turn into depression that feeds on itself).

IMO most cases of depression are caused by life events. That opinion is based on seeing a number of people close to me suffer from it, and recover. Generally it is not entirely obvious to the person what is causing the depression, but looking closely at their life usually pins down a cause. Generally it is something along the lines of working in a job that you don't like, being in a relationship that isn't working, excessive stress/burnout, or not having a purpose in life, or some combination of these factors.

Your depression may well have felt like extreme sadness or grief. Why do you think your individual experience transfers to all other people with depression?

> IMO most cases of depression are caused by life events.

This is called "reactive depression". Do you have any real numbers, or are you just going by the people who you know? Some people mask their depression.

Other people in this thread have claimed, based on their own experience, that severe depression is nothing like sadness. So for me it's useful to see both sides (I'm not discounting either). It seems a bit one sided for you to criticize this post on this ground, and not the others.

Also I find it interesting -- and sad -- that I got a downvote for sharing my experience.

So do I. I supplied a corrective upvote.

I realise that my post does sound critical. Sorry for that -- I didn't intend that harshness.

I think different people often experience different aspects. I've felt that extreme sadness, as well as feelings totally unrelated, i.e. the numbness I talked about.

The point I was making was to contradict the idea that it can _only_ be described as extreme sadness, but in no way discounts that as an experience.

Sorry you got downvoted for that, I for one found our different experiences of this disease quite interesting! Though I'd much rather nobody experienced it...

You claim that depression is just a form of sadness. Other people prove you wrong by describing some episodes of depression that are not just extreme forms of sadness.

When someone says "all swans are white" someone saying "my swan was black" is useful because it makes you realise that maybe you're wrong and need to rethink. someone saying "my swan is white and I've seen some swans my friends own that are white" is less useful because it doesn't provide much on top of what you've already said.

>Your depression may well have felt like extreme sadness or grief. Why do you think your individual experience transfers to all other people with depression?

I'm not necessarily saying it does. There may be different types of depression. However I'm saying that this particular type of depression that I experienced definitely was extreme sadness, and it's pretty obvious that that is the case if you have experienced it. It's like saying that a colour is a slightly darker shade of blue.

>This is called "reactive depression". Do you have any real numbers, or are you just going by the people who you know

No, it is just an observation of people I know who have had depression.

AFIK most cases of depression are triggered by life events. Causative factors are usually not quite that simple (except maybe in the case of adjustment disorder?)

But then again this kind of discussion frequently gets muddied by colloquial use of the term "depression".

I guess that's the problem with trying to discuss something complex in a sentence. In many cases the life event appears to be a major causal factor, although there are obviously other perpetuating factors.

Sure.

Well, that's just it though; They appear to be a major causal factor. They might be. But is there any reason for us to believe so, other than the observed correlation of some stressor with the onset of an episode? And even then: do they cause or trigger the illness?

Or maybe that's what you mean - that a life event triggers the episode, not that the traumatic event is the genesis of the illness?

I guess you can never definitively prove it. However, given what we know about how the stress system works, how long-term high cortisol affects the brain, etc., it's pretty well established that long-term stress has certain measurable effects on structure of the brain. Also, there have been studies showing similar changes in brain chemistry in animals to that seen in depressed patients, when put into socially stressful situations.

I'm not entirely sure what your differentiation is between "trigger" and "genesis" in this case. Can you explain?

I'm sorry, I don't think I made myself very clear:P

My point, summed up, is one regarding definition.

Maybe it's just pedantry, but I find that your use of cause (what I also describe as genesis) sort of implies that it is a progenitor - that it is a starting point of sorts.

And what I'm suggesting is that there are other factors at play (biopsychosocial model) long before the culmination of the disease in a major depressive episode - provided we are still talking about the term "depression" as in "major depressive disorder."

In the cases I have witnessed, life events have been the progenitor. There are obviously other factors, such as personality, genetics, etc. However, life events seem to have been the main "cause" of these depressive episodes (and not just the trigger).

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