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Comment by bphogan | Hacker News Reader

You don't "get a mentor."

You develop a relationship with a person who has more experience than you do, and over time, that person may become a mentor to you. And I say may, because if the person you're working with determines that you don't provide any value to the relationship, they won't be that willing to help you for long.

I say this from experience - lots of people want me to mentor them, and I've had quite a few that, once they got their first job, they just disappeared.

I'm a lot more picky about which college students I mentor now.

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How would you like the students you mentor to add value to the relationship?

I think traditionally it worked like this... The students did a bunch of work for the mentor, for very little or no wages and they were taught a trade.

The students were much like your property, you could beat them, treat them basically how you liked, even sodomize them if the mood took I'm guessing.... (sorry to be graphic, but I think that's how it likely went down). You did however, have to provide for their basic needs and you couldn't kill or severely maim them, or it was bad for business. After X number of years, the student could go out on their own, and the process repeated.

So this system has some obvious flaws and has slowly been done away with. It might be good if it were to make a comeback in a modern form (without the beating and sodomy of course). Then again, maybe it's not so good. Still, we get lots of people wanting "mentors". What do they have to give back, particularly at first?

My opinion? Want a good mentor? Look in the mirror.

I think you're thinking of a master and apprentice (albeit through the lens of a world which resembles that of Westeros...) In any event, not the mentor relationship the OP was inquiring about.

"Westeros"....

You know, I don't think so. Trades have been around for a lot longer than universal justice. Slavery is only recently going away. Important people in the community have traditionally done what they wanted and as long as it wasn't too egregious, they usually got away with it.

A little light googling turns up no shortage of cases of apprentice abuse, (including sexual) from the relatively recent past (1600's on... a time that is comparatively modern in the "objective" dispersal of justice). One can only imagine what earlier times were like. No doubt there have been plenty of beneficent individuals, but the beneficent treatment of fellow humans is sadly often the exception historically speaking. For most of human history there has been a very different standard of what was acceptable than we hold today. A third party flogging for failing to follow orders (or simply because the flogger was having a bad day) likely scarcely raised eyebrows as long as it didn't get out of hand for most of human history.

Even today we still see remnants of this relationship. Abuse of underlings who put up with it because they think it will get them somewhere. Taking on an "apprentice" out of sexual interest rather than simple interest in their development. Human nature has not changed terribly much... just the rules.

I don't know what kind of relationship OP is after or what he is willing to do to get it. I do wish him the best of luck on his quest.

> Slavery is only recently going away.

Define "going away."

As a very recent mentor (yay!), I usually look for feedback on how I can improve my own teachings. I've only met with my apprentice a couple of times, but she's allowed me to think about how to explain things in a more clear and concise manner for other people to understand. She's also going to bring cookies next week (a super-sweet gesture on her part), and since she's a (elementary school) teacher, she's going to give feedback on slides I'm creating for an upcoming class I'm teaching.

Every time I teach my craft to somebody new to web development, I learn something new. It gets me excited about coding again, and it's why I love teaching so much. The students with the most questions are usually the most enthusiastic, so ask any and all questions that come to you. If your mentor doesn't know the answer, even better. I like students who make me think!

First, I would hope that they would introduce me to things I don't know about, and eventually teach me things. And give me feedback on how I can improve. Mentoring relationships need to be bidirectional in my opinion.

I completely agree, but it can be intimidating to offer feedback to someone who you idolize as a mentor, that's why I think the relationship is especially important as a foundation from which to provide that feedback.

Edit: Typo

Yes. Exactly. But that's why mentoring relationships need to happen organically. So that the trust can be there. That the mentee (if that's a word) can build up confidence and the pair can work as colleagues.

How clearly have you stated this to the folks you were mentoring?

"We fill gaps" - Rocky Balboa

Like any relationship it works best when both sides have strengths that complement each other.

The nature of a mentor relationship is that the mentor has more experience. It doesn't mean they are more skilled in every way.

A specific example: I get questions from my mentors along the lines of "What's the state of X? Is it ready for prime time?" or "In Y, how does one typically do Z?" because they know I am actively involved in the community for X and Y.

I would have to concur with this. Find people you respect and reach out to them with something real. But respect that they are probably quite busy and such help is often in demand in a lot of directions. Often times, people will develop notions about who is ready to listen and who isn't, things like taking the idea as far as they can before reaching out, and actively listening to the feedback. A good mentor won't be rude but they will be honest. And if you haven't yet reached the point where you can be honest with yourself and others, it will be hard for you to learn from others. When people aren't ready it is pretty easy to spot.

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