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Comment by smtddr | Hacker News Reader

>>Given the underrepresentation of women in tech I think I'm ok with them being chosen over satisfying your ambitions.

This sounds like Affirmative-action; while having good intentions did not work out quite like they hoped. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action , search for the word "Negative".

Also, I wouldn't want my coworkers thinking I only got the job because I'm a black male. Even I myself don't like the idea that I might have gotten something only because someone else saw me as a charity case or I'm just the "token black guy" so the company can prove "See? We got a black guy! We're cool & hip now!" Replace "black male" with "woman" and I still believe my statement is true for most people.

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Sharing a personal anecdote:

I'm somebody who was part of this affirmative action population. I come from the poorest country in Europe called Moldova, the unemployment is high, education low, your typical eastern-european anti-intelectual culture, you get the idea.. Anyway.. when I was 15 I got a scholarship in Romania because there were quotas for us 'moldavians'. At the time Romania was not much better off than Moldova, but certainly when it comes to math and CS to me at least it looked years ahead of the programs we had in Moldova! So I packed my bags and left for a much better education and what I would say now without reservation: a better life. Looking back I think I was very lucky to have gotten the education and exposure to an environment with great teachers/programmers. Maybe I could have succeeded in Moldova, who knows.. It's possible I suppose, but unlikely.

People who don't think you deserve a job will find a reason, any reason for their belief, even if you are the smartest person in the room, you will always be the "token black guy" for a significant percentage of people with or without an affirmative action programme.

And counter to your point, if you read the article, you'll find that affirmative action programmes have been very successful in improving participation rates and shrinking the wage gaps. Not to the point of equity, but an improvement. (Sidenote: if you search for Positive, you'll find twice as many as Negative)

Thomas Sowell--who is proposes several of the arguments against affirmative action in the wikipedia article-- is extremely intelligent, but if you follow his work you'll see that he's incapable of supporting anything that goes against the idea of ideologically pure free market systems.

Ok. I see your point. Positive discrimination is harmful, but I think it only applies when it's abused. From my vantage point I don't think we are there.

Do you think that any amount of positive discrimination is harmful for a given population?

Ask someone anywhere in the lower-middle range who's sent a kid (moreso boy than girl) to college recently how they feel about whether we're there or not.

I'm pretty sure a homogenous group of males with the same ethnicity will almost exclusively hire more males that "fit with their culture" and can "quickly get up to speed with the rest of their team".

I'm interested in hearing alternatives to an "affirmative action like" approach that would be effective.

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