New Tesla 70D all-wheel drive, 240 mile range car for ~$75k | Hacker News Reader

New Tesla 70D all-wheel drive, 240 mile range car for ~$75k

my.teslamotors.com

76 pointsyla9235 comments

The price listed in the title is "after incentives & gas savings" and before taxes.

For example: the 70kWh battery has the 'pitch' price at $56,895... except that the actual cash price to the right is $76,200 delivered.

Edit: The main difference in this new edition is 70kWh battery and AWD vs the previous 60kWh battery and RWD.

second edit: the HN title has been changed to more accurately reflect the cash price of the car.

Well, actually the "after incentives & gas savings" price listed is 57,000. The title price only missed the reg fees.

I think the title got changed.

Prices in other countries:

  US: ~$75k
  Canada: ~C$86k = ~$68k
  UK: ~£55k = ~$80k
  France: ~€70k = ~$74k
  Australia (varies with territory): ~A$115k = ~$88k

76240 Euro in Germany. There are no listed tax credits. For company cars it's 500 Euro/kWh maxing out at 10k in 2013 then -50/kWh and -500 total each year so this year we'd be at 400 Euro/kWh maxing at 9k. For Teslas the max is the only thing that matters because the battery easily outpaces the max (28k for the 70D). +20 Euro/month in tax credit = 9240 Euro less for an even 67k. You can also get a 42 Euro/month credit if you use the car at home so that's an extra ~500/year.

I've recently read about a consulting company that switched to Tesla company cars. The standard seems to be around Audi A6 level Diesels and the Tesla There was also some talk about image ramifications both positive (especially for IT consulting) and negative (especially for cost cutting consultants in rough times). Pretty sure they said the standard cars would have been quite a bit less expensive but they did it anyway because it's a net+ for the image (+really cool :P). Interestingly they briefly mentioned that the move was a huge plus in recruiting talent. Only anecdotal evidence but they added it as a perk in the adds and it got talked about in every interview and was seen as a good driver for talent acquisition.

Lol consultants and all but I could see the same reasoning helping with recruiting programmers (we do love our tech toys after all)

It bugs me that they deduct the gas savings but don't include cost of charging the car without access to superchargers.

That being said, it's good to see the prices coming down.

It's about $4 per charge, at 7cents per kWh... Comes out to $250/yr. I guess they should include it if you live in HI or somewhere else with high-priced electricity, but realistically it is much, much less than, say, sales tax, which they also don't include.

Where do you live that electricity is actually 7c/kWh? I didn't really pay attention to my power bills until I moved to Florida, but down here, the real price is 14-17c/kWh; the actual kWhs are quoted as something like 7c but then they add a 7c/kWh fuel surcharge and additional fees after you cross certain usage thresholds.

I'm pretty sure my marginal rate for power is 35c/kWh here in the bay area. I think PG&E may have special rate plans for EV charging though.

Edit: Oh, this is handy: http://www.pge.com/cgi-bin/pevcalculator/PEV/

My uncle in Wesley Chapel (Tampa) is paying ~7 cents/kwh from their local coop, I pay as low as 1 cent a kwh for 6-12 hours a day from Exelon's nuclear power in Northern Illinois.

https://www.comed.com/technology/electric-vehicles/Pages/rat...

On the bottom of the page they state their assumptions. $0.12 per KWH of electricity and $3.90 for a gallon of gas. However I think the price should reflect immediate savings and the gas savings should figure in total cost of ownership.

Which is even more incorrect given the current cost of gas ($2.09 in SC at the moment for regular). Which is not to say it won't go back up, but I just find it quite the sleazy sales tactic.

It'd be like selling someone a gun and saying, "it's free after you go kill your own deer, you'll never have to buy meat from a grocery store ever again! (but you have to pay $700 up front)."

This type of sales tactic makes me want to buy the product even less, not more, because it makes me wonder what else they're lying to me about.

The rule of thumb in the car business is that you have to sell 40000 of the things to get the economies of scale needed to be viable. I am very for Tesla and I would buy an 'S' the moment my lottery winnings come through, however, is it an uncomfortable fact that despite the hype and hoopla they are not hitting the numbers needed for economy of scale that the rest of the mass-market auto industry lives by?

Before posting a question like this, please bother to look into the logistics involving the company (for example, their actual plans for scaling). They are a new car company. They do not yet have the capacity to manufacture at high scale, but they are working on it. Whether or not they hit their plans, 40k cars/year is well beyond their stated expectations for the year 2015.

I mean, are you supposed to be able to just wake up in the morning and say "hi, I am a car company" and manufacture 50k cars?

As jblow mentioned, they are not at scale yet. They're using the revenue (and high profit margins) from the Model S to fund their Gigafactory construction. Once online, the Gigafactory is to bring down the cost of batteries by ~30%.

They will, at that point, be at scale.

It is a very reasonable price for a fully electric luxury sedan with these features.

I would strongly disagree there. The interior quality e.g. leather, door/dash finishings are very poor compared to other cars at this price point. It feels far more like a basic Mazda than a Mercedes, LandRover etc.

I know you are paying a premium for electric but it is a luxury car none the less.

Nah, it does feel more premium than a Mazda, more like the entry-mid level offerings from German luxury manufacturers (CLA, C-class, 2xx series, 3xx/4xx series, A3, A4/A5) than their offering at those price points (E-class, 5xx/6xx series, A6/A7).

I still stand by my assertion. When I took it for a test drive it felt very similar to the Mazda I drive for work. Maybe the models in the US differ quite a lot from what we have in Australia.

It definitely doesn't feel like a $100K car (which is very expensive here in Australia).

I am sorry, we cannot really argue about how something feels, can we? :)

For me, Tesla is a luxury brand, I might just have a bad taste. :))

Did they move the date on the X again :-(

http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx

If I am going to have a fantasy tesla, I want the X

It says "The delivery estimate for new reservations is early 2016".

That probably doesn't mean they start shipping first reservations later.

And it looks like supercharging is included as well! That base model just got a lot more attractive...

But I'll still stick with my 12000€ car for now :)

Relay cool that one can actually order the thing online :)

Should the title be altered to reflect the actual price of the car? It starts at $75k (+$1200 in fees)

I agree, subtracting the price of gasoline in a conventional car isn't what most people understand "price" to mean. Title changed from $55k to $75k.

Wait, the price of petrol over the life-time of a car (10+ years) is only $20k? Man, that's the best pitch I've ever heard to buy a nice sexy gas guzzler with great engine/exhaust noise.

Act now since big V8s are kind of going out of style. BMW is dropping the V8 from its new M3 and going to a turbo I6, Cadillac's new full-size will have a twin turbo V6 instead of a V8, Mercedes is shrinking the size of its turbo V8 for AMG cars, and even the Mustang will have a turbo 4 cylinder option. In a few years it wouldn't surprise me to only see stuff like the Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, etc. have big 5+ liter V8s.

I thought Mad Max was supposed to be dystopian sci-fi. This is a real bummer.

Now if only I had the money (and/or a decent enough excuse) to buy a car.

> In a few years it wouldn't surprise me to only see stuff like the Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, etc. have big 5+ liter V8s.

I'm all for nostalgia, but have you driven the new turbos?

I know the corvette v8 has pretty decent gas mileage because it can turn off half the cylinders for economy and has a tall 6th gear.

They aren't kind of going out of style they absolutely are.

Buyers are very conscious of petrol pricing and being seen to be environmentally friendly. Being "that guy" with the V8 is no longer cool like it was in the 90s.

It's why F1 moved to 1.6L turbo V6 with lots of talk about moving to 4 cylinders in the future. It's all being pushed by the car manufacturers who want R&D in those types of engines.

That's mostly likely true. Assuming you drive 12k miles per year and gas costs $4 per gallon for your 15 mpg premium european sports car. The price for gas over 10 years is: (12,000 / 15) * $4 * 10yrs = $32,000.

It's downright deceptive. Every car has different MPG numbers.

You don't see them all having an "effective price" that takes this into account.

Number is from Elon's tweet: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/586750504450916352

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