Selfish generosity, or the value of n+1 | Hacker News Reader

Selfish generosity, or the value of n+1

andyswan.com

25 pointsbhousel19 comments

Enjoyed this post, but:

Five minutes later, a basket of empty bread is sitting at the table, the food isn’t ready yet, and the server is required to offer another basket.

I've experienced this "automatic refill" culture in the US but in the UK you wouldn't get another basket of bread in a gazillion years. At least, I never have in 20 years of dining out here.. and you'd get looked at weird if you dared to ask for more.

I’m way too impolite for this world. I would just ask if anyone wants the roll and if nobody says anything just take it.

I'd consider the asking to be impolite (since it wastes time with a silly conversation), so I'd just take it, since, other than modest latency, it's not a scarce resource.

The asking is pure signalling. Never once did anyone actually say to me that they wanted the last piece. Like adding please, saying good bye or thank you.

I was just referencing the OP wrt conversation. However, I still consider it wasteful and impolite, since it's not merely a polite-sound attached to another message. It's a complete attention-getting, conversation-interrupting message in and of itself, with, apparently, no content.

For me it's a mix of not wanting to ask, and not wanting to ruin my appetite. These two combined forces are usually enough for me to leave it in the basket.

is there data backing up this n+1 claim? without A/B testing it, it is hard to be convinced that it is definitely the cheaper strategy. in fact, it makes a lot of assumptions about how people will behave, whats to prevent a culture developing where someone always grab the last roll but is responsible for flagging down the next batch? thus severely increasing your costs. regardless tho it is definitely non-intuitive and clever and worth testing for the sake of academic curiosity.

I agree. This would need to be tested thoroughly before it could have any degree of certainty attached to it.

I would also argue that the remaining roll shouldn't be reused for other customers anyway (if it has been sitting out on a table for hours), thus rendering it unusable and therefore a cost. The restaurant owner might inadvertently find themselves wasting the +1 roll - or it simply being eaten anyway!

It's a nice, thought-provoking story, but I wonder how applicable to the real-world this really is?

I don't think the +1 roll /is/ reused - I think they meant that if you can assume rolls uneaten by the party to which they are served are simply thrown out. With that assumption, the total rolls "lost" by the restaurant stays at n+1 - compared to serving that extra n rolls (which, if uneaten, may be assumed to have been thrown out as well)

Another thing that might happen is that by having +1 roll is causes the customers to wait a minute to see if anyone else wants the roll before grabbing it. This extends the time that is needed for the bowl to be refilled and the longer the better (i.e. the closer to the food being ready)

This is a very common situation in Chinese (and possibly other) culture. There is a whole intricate social dance over how to deal with the last piece of any dish, wherein its considered impolite to take it. All parties are supposed to offer it to someone else, often to the point of physically taking the food item and dropping it on someone else's plate.

Same in Galiza, to the point that the last thing on a plate is called the "Galician's shame" (could be translated as "pride", too).

Experienced it in Slovenija as well, but almost in reverse. The only way we could get hosts to stop bringing out more prosciutto or olives or spirits was to go just short of finishing the existing supply. Too little and they might be offended. Too much and they could not be stopped from serving more!

I really enjoyed this post on n+1, but I'm struggling to find an example as it relates to other industries and businesses besides food. (this is no reflection on the post, just my own personal struggle to try and apply it elsewhere)

Can anyone think of something?

I can think of generalities in regards to patterning offerings tuned to human behavior, but nothing quite like this.

Why can't you ask for more rolls even with one still remaining?

You can (just as you can just eat the last roll) but it makes less sense than with an empty basket. Also, you have to ask, while with an empty basket you could expect the waiter to offer you more.

This strategy wouldn't work if one I was a diners. I always make it a point to ask for a second round of bread (refill of nachos etc).

It fails with two people (particularly couples) as they get to split it in half and share it.

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