Plowing Detroit Into Farmland | Hacker News Reader

Plowing Detroit Into Farmland

ideas.blogs.nytimes.com

21 pointsdavi24 comments

Thanks for the recco. I appreciate it. I hope you'll all check out the blog.

By the way, I'm a hacker myself. I wrote the only utility in the world I'm aware of that will actually recover data out of corrupted tarballs, gzrecover:

http://www.urbanophile.com/arenn/coding/gzrt/gzrt.html

Along with other free software. Cheers!

Egad, Mr Urbanophile is here! I suspected you were a computer guy but you're fairly coy about your Clark Kent side on your blog. Welcome!

Anyone interested in this really should read Aaron Renn's blog The Urbanophile http://www.urbanophile.com/ - he wrote the New Geography article. He writes mainly on the Midwest but uses it as a lens to examine urban issues. He's one of the sharpest urban thinkers out there.

Another interesting perspective of detroit: http://www.sweet-juniper.com/2009/07/feral-houses.html

Jim takes lots of pictures of Detroit. He's also got his more original site, which is less bloggy and I like it better: http://jamesgriffioen.net/index.php?/prairies/feral-houses/

The feral houses are cool but the writing at http://www.detroitblog.org/ is amazing.

discussed article: http://www.newgeography.com/content/001171-detroit-urban-lab...

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edit: wonder what fraction of this land is contaminated by previous industrial activity? (per: http://ideas.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/plowing-detroit-in...)

Many plants like spinach leech toxins from the soil so over time the soil could heal.

I think the biggest obstacle to this sort of thing would be that it would be seen as "giving up" by the government. They have the ability to block it too because of zoning laws.

Agree with you re: government, but maybe Detroit is a special case:

"This piece also highlights the absolutely crucial advantage of Detroit. It’s possible to do things there. In Detroit, the incapacity of the government is actually an advantage in many cases." (From the New Geography article linked to above)

Certain types of mushrooms can be used in this way as well

There's a TED Talk on that: http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_stamets_on_6_ways_mushrooms_ca...

What would you do with the spinach though? Presumably it couldn't be eaten by man or beast. Or does it convert the toxins into less harmful substances?

Presumably it couldn't be eaten by man or beast.

Oh, but it could. My assumption is that it's a near certainty that some enterprising contractor would sell this stuff as feed, regardless of the damage to animals and humans.

Here is a wikipedia link about land cleanup... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioremediation

From the article: "Not all contaminants, however, are easily treated by bioremediation using microorganisms. For example, heavy metals ... Phytoremediation is useful in these circumstances, because natural plants or transgenic plants are able to bioaccumulate these toxins... [heavy metals in biomass] may be further concentrated by incineration or even recycled for industrial use."

Even if the land itself is un-arable, one could always do raised-bed gardening with fresh topsoil.

I do wonder about the economics: many of farms that currently supply Detroit are presumably hundreds of miles away, so Detroit consumers have to pay for shipment, but they are also established businesses with economies of scale (large dairy farms without any neighbors to complain about the smell of manure, or whatever). How can urban farmers find niches where they could compete? How many Detroit residents could be put to work with this kind of project?

That's an interesting idea especially given some of the Detroit land prices that have been discussed here on HN over the last few months.

There are urban/suburban farmers who currently supply fresh crops to upscale restaurants, the same could probably be done on a local scale at lower cost given more cheap land. The smaller plots mean that farm automation is cheaper. e.g., there are scaled down farm implements (plows, disks, seeders, etc) designed to be towed by ATVs or riding mowers instead of the larger ones designed for full size tractors and they cost a fraction of the commercial varieties. Not to mention that an ecosystem around repair and small scale manufacture would rise up to support the farmers.

It's possible to grow some animals at reasonable densities with minimal pollution. Chickens come to mind: raising them doesn't require the horrific conditions of "industrial" production. Lots of people raise meat & egg chickens on pasture and the costs are low, animal welfare and food taste is demonstrably better.

I raise poultry as a hobby, and while I've considered making it break even, I've never bothered to actually run the numbers since I really don't want to turn a fun pastime into a part time job. However, my gut tells me that with low cost of real estate, proper management (software tools to help here) and relaxed zoning, it's possible to be self sufficient in the city doing small scale agriculture.

Government could take an active role and redefine zoning laws to allow for agricultural areas in some formerly urban areas. Other cities in Michigan have done something similar: Flint started a program to assist moving residents out of sparsely populated, heavily foreclosed areas, into more densely populated areas, consolidating people and turning abandoned neighborhoods into parkland.

Detailed PDF referred to by the referred to article (mmm, linked list): http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/documents/pdf/aiab0802...

I'm just curious, were any HN readers actaully inspired a bit to move to Detroit? I am currently at work researching Detroit because of this article.

I grew up in Detroit, so I'm a bit jaded, but I wouldn't recommend it. Many of the people who live in Detroit don't see the blight as a problem and actively fight anyone who tries to change Detroit.

Plus the city council is beyond dysfunctional... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TvgtGlcdTE&eurl=http://c...

I live in Benton Harbor, which is like Detroit in a lot of ways, but smaller and on the west coast; it really is a very different, fulfilling, vibe.

I was actually in Detroit over the summer visiting some extended family, and was awestruck. It's really quite remarkable... within maybe ten blocks of the (surprisingly nice) Renaissance Center and re-developed waterfront area, there were entire city blocks that were completely overgrown with ivy and other such plants. It felt like I was inside the pages of "The World Without Us". I can totally see the urban agriculture thing working out in Detroit, except for the industrial contamination problem.

Of course, what really struck me was the abrupt transition we saw driving to the north and east along Jefferson Ave. For block after block, it's nothing but abandoned factories, vacant lots, and eerily empty and overgrown neighborhoods, with the only operational (i.e., not boarded up) businesses being convenience stores and the occasional bait shop. Then, all of a sudden, without any transition, the scenery changes to a ritzy suburb. I swear, it was a sharp enough contrast that my mind was reeling from psychic whiplash for the rest of the day.

It was like the NYC good-block/bad-block phenomenon, only on a massive geographic scale and with the volume turned up to 11.

Yeah, the transition to Grosse Pointe is dramatic. You can see it clearly on gmaps: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=42.390833,-82.911389&#... As you go down jefferson ave to the northeast it goes from vacant lots to a couple blocks of small homes to one of the wealthiest areas in the midwest. Along the river is even more dramatic: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=42.390833,-82.911389&#...

I live in Detroit. There are some nice areas, but you cannot avoid blight for long. I was born and raised here, so I am used to it.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I also just found: http://www.detroitblog.org/ Some of the pictures on their seem alien to me.

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