France Gives in to the Hashtag
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
- #, the "croisillon" sign (hash)
- ♯, the "dièse" sign (sharp)
Therefore the literal translation should be "mot-croisillon", not "mot-dièse".
And on the subject of the the Académie Française, the Commission générale de terminologie et de néologie and the Délégation générale à la langue française et aux langues de France (DGLFLF), the problem is that they often try to find translations to words that, in my opinion, shouldn't be translated.
For example, the DGLFLF has a website [0] where people can suggest french translations for english words. Here are some words from the website that it is pointless to try to translate:
- BitTorrent
- barcamp
As a result, the proposed translations are often ridiculous (filoutage, langage à objets, offre groupée).
Another problem is that the people working there are not technology-fluent. That's why they come up with wrong translations such as "accès sans fil à l’Internet" ("access without wire to the Internet") for Wi-Fi, which is incorrect as a Wi-Fi connexion does not always imply an Internet connexion.
That said, some english words have a great french translation :
- firewall -> part-feu
- mailing-list -> liste de diffusion
- byte -> octet
- Cloud Computing -> Infonuagique
- E-Mail -> Courriel (vs. France's mél... how the hell do you pronounce that)
- Hashtag -> Mot-clic (it is indeed a keyword, "mot-clé" that you can click)
And a whole lot more...
Both convey a correct meaning for spam!
Mot-clic is humorous; I had not seen that before.
This one strikes me a quite terrible, to be honest.
Readers should note that the OQLF also has an enforcement branch, which is used primarily to harass and extort minorities, allegedly for linguistic infractions.
The weird thing is that in the longer turn it results in a much larger problem: irrelevance.
There must be some basic cognitive bias here, like valorizing too highly the literature you loved in your youth, while discounting the creative innovations of your own age.
On the one hand I agree with you. The English we use now, even when written or spoken in a grammatically perfect way, is very different to the English used a couple of hundred years ago.
On the other hand, seeing "your/you're" or "they're/their/there" used incorrectly or interchangeably rustles my jimmies immeasurably.
As far as I know the biggest issue French is facing is the injection of English words where there isn't a French equivalent.
Then again, French people seem to absolutely loathe the version of French spoken in Quebec so there could be a plethora of other issues involved that we don't have in English.
Regarding your second point, personally I'm not sure but ignorance certainly plays its part one way or another.
Everybody knows that languages naturally evolve on their own. The advantages of the "Académie" are:
- it slows down the evolution allowing better choices.
- although the language is still driven by everybody using it, it is stirred in the right direction by linguists and authors, usually making choices consistent with the rest of the languages, its history and roots.
The best example of what happens when such a mechanism isn't in place is the "biweekly" and "irregardless" mess in english!I am really fond of the "Real Academia Española" as they go even further than their french counterpart, and regularly change the spelling of words to reflect their modern pronounciation.
The Académie does that too, but people are so used to having irregular or (apparently) illogical spelling that the new spellings catch on very slowly. It works though, and today you rarely see someone write "clef" instead of "clé" or "cuiller" instead of "cuillère". A few verbs got their accents changed from "é" to "è" too, following modern pronunciation. All that was in 1990.
What about all the spelling we never pronouce ("ils mangent")?
If the Académie doesn't do anything about it, eventually people will create their own simplifications, and that is guaranteed to be a mess.
The problem would still be there for meanings. Who deicide the meaning of a word in a given context when it has become ambivalent (e.g.: biweekly)?
Also, dictionaries based on accepted usage (ask ten random native speakers whether they consider spelling ___ to be acceptable) give most of the advantages of dictionaries based on dictate (what the academy thinks).
What mess would that be, exactly? Those who care about English tend not to use terms like this. Conversely, correct French is replete with special cases and arbitrary deviations from consistent logic.
Also, word composition doesn't necessarily need to be associative ;)
biweek/ly- once every two weeks
bi/weekly- twice every weekI think we all agree no one can force anything on a language, but at least having standards that are phonetic, have no exceptional rules, etc, gives you a solid reference. Of course, plenty of the standards bodies don't do this and just make it even more convoluted such as the Scharf-S rules in new germen rechtschreibung, and all the new english words copied verbatum that don't follow standard german rules, which leaves everyone just sitting there guessing...
In Spanish you don't remember the spelling of most words, the spelling is just an encoding of a neutral pronounciation. Even if there are some irregularities, you remember the irregularity instead of the whole word. For instance, you would remember "kamikaze both k".
So most spellings get fixed on their own. Not bashing on the RAE though, they made such a nice job making this possible.
Edit:wording
And certainly not isolated to English. I find internet lingo in non-English languages far more interesting than those in English (at least when we are talking about something else than simply using the English loanword), since the Internet is largely an English-written concept, other languages are finding its incompatibilities with English difficult and the solutions can be quite interesting.
I find the anglifications of languages to be uninteresting at best, from a completely linguistic standpoint. Take a modern item like a 'vacuum cleaner', called »støvsuger« in Danish, which literally translates as 'dust sucker'. This reveals a difference in how each language's speakers think about items, words and their meanings.
If all words are English, then the languages themselves reveal nothing about our differences and how we think. Moreover, it will cause us all to think in the same way. It's documented that speaking more languages helps one think different about approaching problems, even ones not related to language. It broadens the mind. Everything being English won't broaden the mind.
It's been a quixotic quest, at best, it's not as if in regular speech (French) people didn't inject whatever was the argot dujour into the speech be it domestic or foreign.
Some examples I pulled from this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-3917...) thread for the gender of Internet in various languages:
* Spanish: Generally assumed to be masculine but the Real Academia Espanola page lists it as "amb", i.e. undecided gender (http://buscon.rae.es/drae/?type=3&val=internet&val_aux=&origen=REDRAE)
* Russian: Интернет - masculine
* Welsh: rhwngrwyd - feminine (but that's because "net" (rhwyd) is feminine, itself borrowed from Latin neuter rete, retis "net.")
* Czech: masculine
* Hebrew: masculine, although the more commonly used "net" (reshet) is feminine.
It's commonly taught that grammatical gender in languages (at least in IE languages) is semantically meaningless, i.e. they are just arbitrary classifications. this may not be totally true. If you have 10 minutes this article (PDF file: http://lera.ucsd.edu/papers/gender.pdf) by Lera Boroditsky has an in-depth discussion on this topic.French and German native speakers: Can you provide examples of English borrowed words that have feminine gender?
Sometimes, when the translation is obvious, we'll use the gender of the original word, e.g. "une backdoor" (porte dérobée).
un job -> because of "un emploi, un boulot, un travail"
une [surprise] party -> because of "une fête"
un hashtag -> masculine because we don't see an "e" at the end??
Seems like they take on the gender of the transliterated word.
I'm not sure what the rule for foreign words is (we have many of them, latin, greek, french, etc.), but their gender seems to be inferred from the base word (that's not a word, is it?). E.g., "internet" (and "network" respectively) is neutrum because the german word for "network" is as well. Same for "printer."
"Email" and "connection" are femininum because the german words for "mail" and "connection" are as well. I suspect that words like "email" might actually not be female, but plural (both share the same pronoun) because the german word for "mail" is one of these words that don't have a singular form (think "fish").
Oddly enough, the word "post" (in the sense of a forum post), even though it is literally the same word we have for "mail" (which is still femininum, "die Post"), is (generic?) masculinum. I guess that's what happens when multiple languages inherit a word from a language, change it over time, and then share the new words later.
Buttons are obviously male (you already know why).
Some words fall back to the generic masculinum however, even though they do have neutral german equivalents (e.g., "account"). I wish I could tell you why.
Anyway, languages are hard. Let's talk about computers instead.
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Btw: I hate the fact that my french neighbours have a weird nationalistic attitude when it comes to their language. French isn't exactly the greatest language on this planet. (Germans get to choose between french and latin as a third language.)
- e-mail / electronic mail / posta elettronica -> feminine (as posta/mail is feminine)
- Internet / rete -> feminine (as rete, [fishing] net, is feminine)
- shell -> feminine (this one I have no idea why, but it is feminine)
- library / libreria -> feminine (as libreria, as a books-library, is feminine)
- directory / cartella -> feminine (as cartella, folder, is feminine)
when I went to university back in the 90s there was definitely a push by some professors to use Italian terms for everything, which in some cases didn't work that well; one of my teachers insisted that we use 'fila' (which is feminine btw) for 'file', note that in Italian 'fila' is the translation of 'file' as in 'single file' which to me sounded quite grating.
Most people I know use the English form for the terms above, but you do see the Italian translation for them in advertising and other more 'official' forums often.
Things can get complicated if a loanword does not have a suffix that exists in German (or is reasonably close to an existing suffix). In this case, you may get regional variations (that can be pretty random) or the grammatical gender of the German translation of the loanword may be adopted instead.
Examples of feminine loanwords: E-Mail (because the word "Post" in German is feminine), URL (because words ending in -el tend to be feminine).
Tell that to the Schluchtenscheißer, they insist it's neutral.
Older loanwords were sometimes 'Hellenized' into a Greek ending and gender. Example: Turkish cep became Greek τσέπη (tsépi, pocket, feminine), French canapé became Greek καναπές (kanapés, couch, masculine), and Turkish pabuç became Greek παπούτσι (papoútsi, shoe, neuter). These are then declined according to the noun class they were assimilated into.
Another category are words whose ending is translated to the semantically equivalent Greek ending, for example any -ism (capitalism, communism, feminism) will become an -ισμός, which is masculine.
This isn't always clear: spoon is masculine, knife neutral (the indogermanic word apparently denoted the result of sharpening something) and fork (a collection of… pointy bits?) feminine, e.g.
And with borrowed words, the gender not always universally agreed on. A processor is masculine, but a CPU or GPU is feminine (probably because unit is, too). Is an e-mail feminine (it's a highly abstract concept), or neutral (the result of writing)? Both genders are used – hash tags, however, are masculine. Letters (as in physical mail) are masculine, but mail (the concept, as in Royal Mail) is feminine… and a Letter (as in print letters) are feminine, because it's taken from French/Latin, and loan words of gendered languages usually keep their gender, even if the rules are incompatible.
Spontaneously I can't think of many "English borrowed words" that are feminine, as most words that could be loaned are already shared from French and/or Latin, which influenced German centuries earlier.
Basically, whenever a noun (or the core of a compound noun) has a direct (or close) translation to a frequently used noun in German, then it's quite common for its gender to "bleed" over into the English loanword.
So in the examples above, Mail → Post, URL → Verbindung, CD-ROM → Platte, Jeans → Hose, etc.
Over the years, French has had influences from many languages including Arabic, e.g. the word "Abricot" (the fruit) comes from that language. It also provides an indication as of where a given new word has been originated.
He also said that it is up to the people to dictate the usage of new words. Some new words have been suggested by the Académie Française to replace words that had been taken from other languages. But in the end, if people dont use that replacement, then it is the (foreign) word that will be adopted in the dictionary.
He gave the example of "shopping", a word taken from the English and widely used in France but reluctantly used in Quebec for cultural (political?) reasons.
Replacing an English word with a phrase containing an English word.
Hard to imagine why it failed to catch on.