Hacker News Reader

Comment by colordrops | Hacker News Reader

You are right. The degree and sophistication of media manipulation is profoundly greater in the west. While the Chinese block a lot of media, the manipulation is minimal. Most Chinese are very cynical and know exactly what is going on. The west, or at least the US, traps people in a matrix of sorts where they don't even see the manipulation. The narrative is exquisitely framed and guided to leave people with a sense of moral superiority and basic faith in the system despite perceived flaws, as is ironically exhibited by your comment.

edit: some good resources on the history and nature of western media manipulation are the BBC documentary "The Century of Self" and Noam Chomsky's book "Manufacturing Consent".

View on HN

If you want to publish your own newspaper, you can. Nobody will stop you. Start your own online video news service, weblog or nes site - nobody will stop you. Post whatever you like to Reddit, or any other discussion platform.

In China and Russia you cannot do these things. Published mdeia are strictly monitored and censored. The state employs thousands of astroturfers to flood social media with pro-government messages, trash anti-government messages and even directly hook into messaging platforms to delete messages the government don't like. Be persistent at it, and you'll get a visit from the police, or just get beaten up a few times.

The very fact that the BBC could publish that report, and Noam Chomsky could publish his book, is strong evidence for freedom of expression in the west. There are no such equivalent sources published in Russia and China exposing their government's manipulations. Why do you think that is?

Yet that Guantanamo ex-prisioner has his book for sale everywhere except in the US... Care to guess why it isn't for sale in the US?

A handful of books banned for a few individual legal issues does not make for a suppressive state. Are you seriously arguing that the USA is more suppressive of coimmunications and publications that China? Really?

> Are you seriously arguing that the USA is more suppressive of coimmunications and publications that China? Really?

He never was. And as seen from the outside, you're completely making his point.

> If you want to publish your own newspaper, you can. Nobody will stop you. Start your own online video news service, weblog or nes site - nobody will stop you. Post whatever you like to Reddit, or any other discussion platform.

> In China and Russia you cannot do these things.

It's not as bad in Russia yet. But we are going there.

You can lose your job if you post too wrong views too much.

EDIT: I don't understand the downvotes. It is both relevant (it refutes that you can "Post whatever you like to Reddit, or any other discussion platform." without punishment), and correct.

I think because it is more a consequence of human nature than governmental activity (though in some measure they're intertwined, and so it's hard to say objectively).

> [...] is strong evidence for freedom of expression in the west.

Unfortunately there are less and less white spots in "the west."

https://index.rsf.org/

I won't argue with you that China is far more repressive and less free than the US, because you are correct in that assertion. I only state that the US is far more _manipulative_.

The U.S. media has nothing on Russian state television, they are quite consciously part of the government propaganda machine. They don't hesitate to use material like photoshopped 'satelite pictures' of Ukrainian fighter jets shooting down that Malaysian airliner and present it as validated evidence. They have presented 'proof' that American soldiers are fighting in the Ukrainian army, and debate outrageous conspiracy theories straight faced. Fox News has absolutely nothing on those guys.

The problem with your claim is that it is irrefutable as anyone denying it could be accused of being manipulated to do so (in fact you are accusing obstinate of just that)

In my view it is an authoritarian trap to defend direct political censorship by pointing to the inevitable force of group think called culture (including, of course, the media), as the latter always necessarily exists everywhere but the former can be abolished.

Manipulation is simply part of any culture. The more interesting question is what other forces there are in a culture to counter that manipulation. Political censorship is an attempt to suppress such counter forces, not a replacement for manipulation. Censorship is supposed to make maniuplation more effective.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com