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Code Keyboards

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49 pointsscotch_drinker108 comments

For people who want an ISO layout, custom keycaps or greater choice of switches, the WASD V2 is identical to this except without the backlighting (how often are you at your desk with the lights off?). I've owned one for a year and it's been fantastic.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/mechanical-k...

I don't understand the attraction of backlighting in "programmer" keyboards. Seems like it would only benefit people who look at the keyboard. Which explains why it's popular on consumer laptops, but not why any computer professional would want it.

I've never had a backlighted keyboard. But I must admit, sometimes when it's dark I have to look closely at the keyboard to find the key I want, at least to orient myself when I first touch the keyboard.

The 'f' and 'j' keys usually have little bumps on them, or are more deeply recessed than the other keys, so you can find them by touch.

According to a friend who had cancer as a child, chemotherapy causes you to lose sensitivity in your extremities over time (nerve issues?). I'm guessing the feel of the 'f' and 'j' keys don't help him much.

I usually need backlighting if I'm trying to find a special character.

Not everyone is a touch-typist (although I recently put in the effort to finally learn - highly recommended).

Also, there are some weird keys out of reach from the home row you may need every now and then - the fn keys on a Mac being a good example. Turning volume up/down in very low lighting is a pain if you can't see the keys.

That said, I found the blue LEDs of the Macbook keyboard backlight to be too bright when used in combination with flux on lowest screen brightness, so I wrote a small command line app to reduce it below the minimum normally permitted by the function keys: https://github.com/drhaynes/brightness.c

I don't look at it while coding, but what about when you need to adjust the volume when watching a film?

You don't _have_ to stare at your keyboard for that. You just don't have it memorized.

On the CODE keyboard your VolUp/VolDown is PgUp/PgDn, combined with the Fn key.

I wouldn't think so either until I received my first one - its surprisingly useful. In fact my current backlit mechanical keyboard is one of my favorite purchases in the past few years for me - for something I use so much, spending $100-$200 is as much of a no-brainer as a great office chair.

You didn't explain what makes it so useful, though.

Because I'm a touch typist I keep my back-lights toggled off.

Media keys. In the dark I can't see them without backlighting.

I like having light on my keyboard. Something about that area not being dark. If it's not lit, it throws me off. Not sure why.

Agreed, I wouldn't call it a necessity but its kind of an aesthetic thing for me. It's not exactly a deal breaker but for a couple of extra bucks on an expensive keyboard why not just shell it out.

I've found it's a nice little ritual to start and end the day-- get into work, turn on the keyboard; go home, turn it off. My one complaint is that the black paint on the home keys started to wear off about five months after I got it; now, a little over a year later, the S/D/K/L keys are very smudged. I wrote to ask about it and their response was basically "Yeah, that happens." They offered to replace them (within the first year), but I figured they'd just wear through again. (Maybe I have unusually corrosive fingertips?)

I like the red backlight in my Max Blackbird at its lowest setting. Not essential, but kind of nice.

What I really like about it, which for some reason is relatively rare in mechanical keyboards, is the built-in USB hub. Nice for a mouse or headset dongle, especially on a port-starved machine like a Surface Pro.

You get a lot of hints on key position from your peripheral vision. I can touch type without much trouble for basic English sentences and the like, but when I code in low light (late at night, at home, with the lights dimmed way down so that I get to bed earlier and it doesn't bother other people), it's annoying to find some of the special keys I use frequently in navigating code: PgUp/PgDn/Home/End (numeric keypad on a laptop), Insert, Fkeys, backslash, etc.

When I bought my laptop, backlit keyboards weren't standard. Now they are and I'm looking forward to getting a new one.

Exactly. In fact I'm not sure why going a step further isn't more popular. Some of the Das Keyboards do so and completely remove all symbols from the keycaps. Looks pretty cool and I haven't had issues using it, apart from the non-ergo layout. (Please, someone, make a MS Ergo layout with mechanical switches and take my money.)

I would really love a mechanical keyboard in the split ergonomic layout of a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic keyboard. Something about that shape feels right to me, but most mechanical keyboard either use a standard layout or something radically different (I'm looking at you Ergodox).

What about using two full keyboards, one for each hand? The question is, will they cooperate? I.e. holding a modifier key one one keyboard affects keys pressed on the other keyboard? If so, I think I would like using two small separate keyboards.

If I understand correctly, I think that's kind of the idea behind keyboards like the ErgoDox and Atreus. They have multiple "layers" that you can map.

You should look at the Kensis Advantage, though it may border on too "radically different" for you. It takes a bit of getting used to, but everyone I know who has one swears by it (myself included).

Thanks for the suggestion. The design does seem fairly radical, but I think the price is also too high for me to justify giving that one a try.

And the Kinesis Advantage is programmable as well, so you can redefine keys as you please. For example I moved arrow keys to one side, remapped Delete to Ctrl and changed some alt/cmd keys configuration in thumb cluster.

How well can you switch to a "normal" keyboard? I worry that with some of the more extraordinary designs switching between them and my laptop or a random keyboard at university would be annoying.

I haven't owned a Kinesis but I've owned and used Japanese keyboards (which have a different layout for many of the symbol keys) and various ergonomic keyboards and found being able to switch between them isn't such a big deal.

I really want someone to make a mechanical keyboard with a nub mouse. Even with xmonad/amethyst, I still can't stand having to take my hand off the keys to move a cursor.

Until someone does do that, I'm going to stick with a Lenovo USB keyboard. But when they do, I'll be the first to buy, especially if it has n-key-rollover for plover stenography.

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro

This one has ended but they said they're going to relaunch it https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-yoda?mode=guest_open

The TEX Yoda looks pretty good for this: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-yoda

On mobile that link redirects to a generic landing page, but thank you.

Web marketers take note. If you redirect from a product page to a landing page, you are making it harder for people to give you money and harder for people to spread the word about your products.

I have one, and I love it. It's loud, feels great and the dipswitch settings on it make me not have to worry about any software to make it work exactly as I like.

The backlighting on it is also perfect.

I don't DVORAK, but the included keypuller makes it simple to swap keys around if you are so inclined.

Buy one.

> the included keypuller makes it simple to swap keys around if you are so inclined.

You know what would be nice? If the keyboard had enough intelligence to read the keycaps and modify which codes it sent based on which keycaps are attached to which switches.

OS key remapping tends to vary from 'xmodmap' to 'worse than xmodmap', in my experience. It would be nice if the stupidly obvious thing worked for once.

Keycaps are somewhat standardized, so unfortunately that would make the keyboard incompatible with third party keycaps.

That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Normally keys are scanned group-by-group digitally, but Cherry recently came out with a keyboard that uses analogue readout of the key matrix. They now put different resistors at each switch and measure the voltage (so they save delays introduced by the scanning and can sell it as "super fast" to gamers …)

If they put the resistors in the keycaps and managed to get stable contacts to the switches below working, one might be able to get a feature like that in hardware.

But allowing to reprogram the keys in the keyboard controller probably is easier. Longer initial setup time, but how often do people change their keyboard layouts?!

> Normally keys are scanned group-by-group digitally, but Cherry recently came out with a keyboard that uses analogue readout of the key matrix. They now put different resistors at each switch and measure the voltage (so they save delays introduced by the scanning and can sell it as "super fast" to gamers …)

Interesting to imagine most keyboards are that primitive.

It's also interesting to see gamers continuing to push technology forwards.

> But allowing to reprogram the keys in the keyboard controller probably is easier. Longer initial setup time, but how often do people change their keyboard layouts?!

It's worth it if the setup is obnoxious enough, and, well, this is something which should be possible, and it's annoying that it hasn't been done yet.

There needs to be a utility that will set the keymap for you, given a photo of your keyboard.

That's actually a really clever idea. Secondary levels take manual work of course, but the basic principle should be viable, especially if you have a "default" layout photo to compare.

Saying the software is so bad you wish it was done in hardware seems like a step backwards to me. Surely a simpler answer is to write a nice xmodmap GUI.

In this case, I honestly think the hardware solution is the better UI.

A very naïve person would expect that changing where the keycaps are would change which switch corresponds to which keycode. Only they'd think of it more like "Hey, the key I want to press is over there, but if I swap things around a bit, I can put it in this more convenient location over here." This isn't stupidity, it's merely expecting the world to be more obvious in its workings than it actually is.

Obviousness is a good UI heuristic. It isn't everything, and it can lead you down some dumb blind alleys, but in this case I can't think of any non-technical reason it shouldn't be made to work.

>A very naïve person would expect that changing where the keycaps are would change which switch corresponds to which keycode.

I don't agree with this. Nobody would expect that rearranging the buttons on their car dashboard would change the original functionality. Same for buttons in a lift, coffee machine, anything you care to name. People are very familiar with the idea that the switch is just a sticker on an underlying mechanism. They don't think the letters inscribed on the plastic magically embody some functionality. So I think your whole premise is wrong.

Don't the keys have different shapes for each row?

>> I don't DVORAK, but the included keypuller makes it simple to swap keys around if you are so inclined.

Unfortunately you cannot swap the keys that sit in different rows. You couldn't swap a "Q" and an "A" for example - they have different profiles. See here for more information (picture on the right if you just want a quick visual):

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keyboard_profile

I use an alternative layout and I never switched my keys around. You should never be looking at the keyboard while you type, even while learning a new layout.

What makes this different to the keyboards with the exact same feature set that are established for years and years already (Filco, DAS, happyhack...)?

The Code name as far as I can tell. Got three different cherry red/black 87 keys (AKA tenkeyless), including a Filco and a cheapo chinese one. And I can not see what this one bring to the table.

This is the keyboard Jeff Atwood was talking about I think: http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-code-keyboard/

I was genuinely curious as this keyboard propped up a couple of times in different places over the last weeks. But it seems there is no innovation here, just one more for the pack.

It's a pity it is only available in US layout. I can't get used to that small Enter key having used ISO layout my whole life. I personally use a Filco with MX Browns and am really happy with it.

I can understand why you'd call the US Enter key small, but speaking as a Canadian who often has to pick between US and "Canadian Multilingual" keyboards, it's the international Enter key I call small -- I'd much rather have an enter key that's longer in the home row so my pinky doesn't have to reach as far. Of course I'm also the type to prefer Caps Lock as Backspace and I use Colemak. And it's hard to adjust to a new way of typing when you're used to another keyboard. Still funny to see this -- I make a point of only buying or recommending the US layout for ergonomics, myself...

I switched from ISO to ANSI about two years ago. ANSI is much better imho, once you get used to it (and you will!).

I have been an owner of the 87-key version for 4 months. Cherry MX.

My observations: The keyboard itself is heavy and feels nice. I love the lack of obnoxious branding. The backlight is actually pretty useful and has a few settings for brightness. I primarily use this one at home, but I've considered getting another one for the office. Would recommended.

Wow, guess I'm just weird for liking the flat keys of a Apple keyboard.

I need to get my hands on one of these mechanical keyboards just to see what I'm missing I guess.

I have a CM Storm with Blues, and it really is awesome (as awesome as getting a new keyboard can be!) You should buy one for the ~60-70 USD if you're interested, worst-case you have a new keyboard (probably one that is known to be reliable), best case you're a whole lot happier typing!

The CM brand sort of surprised me. I am a keyboard snob and didn't really consider them as they are marketed as a "gaming" keyboard. Then I saw they had a "Hybrid Capacitive" (read: Topre) keyboard, which is my absolute favorite switch type -- but this had a unique spin, Topre + Cherry Caps...

I was able to get my hands on one, and it felt perfect... tenless, nkey rollover, topre, cherry mx keycaps, removable cable and built like a truck (thing is like 2 pounds).

Yup! Pretty good for the price, too. TKL is actually a minus for me, but given how much I like the keyboard I got over it ;)

Additional benefit of the TKL: office friendly with included dampeners, first mechanical(ish) I feel non-rude wanting to use in a shared office environment.

Just realized I didn't mention the actual keyboard, too much inside baseball on this thread I guess -- you knew what I was talking about at least, the Novatouch TKL: http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/novatou...

It is interesting that in the time since I purchased it, they toned down the gaming aspect in the marketing.

Anyone have one of these? I'm in the market for a mechanical keyboard. Noticed they have several switch options. From what I've been reading, Cherry Browns are the ones they most people seem to go with.

I have one with Cherry Greens. Have been loving it so far. I prefer a really heavy action and this pretty much gets me there. The keyboard is solid, like really heavy. It's nice to finally have one that doesn't feel like a piece of cheap plastic. It's my first mechanical keyboard, so I may not be a good point for comparison.

I also have one with greens + o-rings (I work in a shared office environment) and love it.

Some people may think the greens are too heavy, but I love the weight behind the keys.

Yeah, I have the Cherry Brown Code keyboard. The one without the number pad. I love it, it looks great, feels amazing, and it's very configurable. If you don't mind dropping the It's worth it.

I have a different keyboard from the same company. The 87-key v2 with clear switches.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2109730/wasd-keyboards-wasd-v...

I can't speak for every one produced, but a few weeks ago I purchased the TKL version with Cherry Clears off of Amazon, and returned it because of the "pinging" effect going on, primarily when hitting the space bar. Some people won't care about this, but I work in a home office and it became very obnoxious after twenty minutes. I didn't feel like trying to do some workaround to get it to stop. If any of the other models (like the Browns) don't do this, I'd be interested in giving it another shot. I should say that noise aside, the keyboard felt fairly nice to type on.

I personally just want a minimalist TKL without a ridiculous key font, which doesn't seem to be too common. The 4C Das Keyboards seem nice but apparently they aren't Cherry keys, so based on what I've heard, I'm wary.

The pinging effect is due to it being improperly lubricated, not a defect of the keyboard itself. Just in case you were wondering.

If it's doing that out of the box, then the "improper lubrication" is a defect of the keyboard.

I prefer MX Blues myself, but at work I use Browns to save the sanity of my neighbors (small working environment).

Both are Das Keyboards, and I absolutely love them. Beware, once you upgrade to a mechanical keyboard, you'll never be able to go back!

I had one with Cherry MX Clear switches, and found the switches still too hard to press, perhaps because the keyboard itself seems very tall. The CODE keyboards are rather thick (but incredibly well constructed), and due to this height, my wrists had to bend upward more than was comfortable to me.

I've since bought two Realforce 87U keyboards (with all 45g switches [1]). Topre switches don't seem to require nearly as much force or travel distance as the Cherry MX switches offered on the CODE keyboard, but still feel crisp.

The backlighting and key layout (normal-sized super key, media key location, etc.) on the CODE keyboard are pretty hard to beat, though.

[1] https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,...

I have the TKL with MX clears and the blue (thicker) o-ring set. I didn't used to like the feel of mechanicals before I tried a co-worker who had put o-rings on his. It makes a big difference in the feel and travel. Much more "laptop-y" but still tactile. I still wish they had a bit less travel, and I wish the keys had much smaller gaps between them (and less depth to drop stuff into, Apple-style), but this is probably the best thing out there right now IMO.

I really wish Apple made a backlit black-key keyboard, basically the 2011 MBP (newer rMBPs and all the airs have shorter travel) but external. I have the Apple desktop keyboards and the keys on them feel too thin / hollow / cheap and aren't backlit. The travel also feels different than MacBooks in that it feels less solid, as if the caps wiggle around more or something. Super nit-picky but that's what I like!

I've been using TypeMatrix 2030[1] for about four years. While not a mechanical keyboard, it still feels much like it. Together with the Programmer Dvorak[2] keyboard layout, I cannot really think of a better "code keyboard".

[1] http://www.typematrix.com/2030/features.php [2] http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

Could someone explain what makes this a "code" keyboard? I was expecting to see a keyboard with some actual ergonomics to help reduce wrist strain.

It's being hawked by Jeff Atwood. That's the only reason.

I've got the one with the Cherry MX Clear switches. It feels overly "springy" when you first get it, but if you're a heavy typer it's pretty excellent to type on once you get used to it. It's also quiet enough to use in the office, and the backlight is very nice to have. One protip: you will definitely need to get a wrist rest for this keyboard, since the front edge is about an inch off the desk.

At home, I use a Das Keyboard with Cherry MX Brown switches, because they're more responsive for gaming and the Das Keyboard has dedicated media buttons and volume wheel.

Before that, I had an Aivia with Cherry MX Brown switches, which had a lot of the advantages of the Das Keyboard but had a very annoying light in the corner (although it might be possible with some hackery to turn it into a useful status light, as it changes color). It did have USB and audio passthrough though, which the Code and Das Keyboard do not have.

Filco with reds or browns are the greatest regular (non-ergonomic) keyboards I've used by a huge margin.

after using brows, reds and blues i honestly prefer my realforce with topre switches.

Got a Filco with browns, and dampening O-rings. It's really loud though. I'd like something quieter, the Cherry Clears sound good.

Have you tried putting a small towel under the keyboard? It seems like a little thing but it made a big difference at my desk.

Fair enough, looks like a nice product.

As I'm not looking for a new keyboard I was just hoping for some innovation in keyboard layouts. The thing has the same damn keys like every keyboard out there. How about something that actually makes coding more efficient. Maybe an extra row of keys below F1-F12, for language-specific keywords or code snippets.

Programming requires me to deal with abstract and unintuitive concepts all the time ... which are then broken down from programming constructs, to words, all the way to the individual letters which I have to type in one by one.

But maybe keyboard design has already reached perfection and all that remains is choosing green or brown Cherry keys.

Some people have these at work and seem to love them. I really love my Kinesis keyboard though...once you get used to it, it really is easier to type on. Plus you can map any key to any other key, which is great.

Assuming that you mean the Advantage, the brackets were always awful. I gave it up for a HHKB

When you say that the "brackets were always awful", are you referring to their placement? If so, the Kinesis Advantage is programmable, so why didn't you relocate the brackets?

Yup, the placement. but where would I put them? The keyboard wasn't full of space.

I don't need the numeric keypad; I'd rather have that space for my mouse. But I do need an ergonomic angle between the left and right sides.

I've been waiting for such a keyboard for 15 years.

There are plenty of ergo/split keyboards without numeric pads.

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/sculpt-ergonomic-d...

https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php (mech switches too)

https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/

http://www.goldtouch.com/ergonomic-keyboards/

Cherry MX Green? Clear? I think these guys are being different for the sake of it.

I really don't like any Cherry switches. They are for point of sale terminals.

I'm saving up for a Realforce (Topre keys). My little Happy Hacking Lite has excellent (non-Topre) keys, though I don't know what's under the key caps. Some sort of high quality membrane technology.

Keyboards are very personal and imo more expensive is not necessarily better.

At home I have a DAS MX brown, but at work I'm using a <10$ IBM 7953 rubber dome one and it beats the MX's (for me) for progging by a mile.

Yawn!

I've been using my HP c3753a for 18 years now (same layout as these, great feel and sound (similar to IBM M)). If it ever dies, I'll just use the backup I grabbed 10 years ago.

It's kind of like buying new antique furniture. I'm sure the keyboard is solid and will last, but I've got the original...

One major drawback with this one is the connection. Unless you have hacked it to have a USB connection ....

Cooler Master Storm QuickFire style keyboards (available with or without backlight and TK) are 90$ at Amazon. They are asking a lot of coin for features I wouldn't use.

I use a Kinesis Advantage so I haven't gotten around to buying one for myself, but I want it every time I do something with it.

Just throwing a shout out to Unicomp, in case anyone is looking for new a IBM Model M-type keyboard, with bulking spring switches.

They're also working on a new ten-keyless model that should be out "soon"...

http://unicomp.com/

I have one with Green switches and I love it.

I took out the o-rings because they made it too gummy. It was very stiff for a bit when I did that, but I got used to it and now I can play games of CS:GO and code on it just fine.

I recommend it, it's simple, small and feels solid.

" Is the CODE keyboard available in ISO layouts? No, we currently only have the CODE available with the standard US ANSI layout. We do not have plans for an ISO layout, but we will try to come up with a solution for that in the future."

sad

I have one with MX Clears, got it as a Christmas gift, love it.

Have you used any other MX switches before?

Wondering how the MX Clears compare to MX Blue; I'm currently using a Ducky Shine 3 with MX Blue, I attempted to put on some o-rings to quiet the clicks, but lost a lot of tactile feedback which annoyed me.

They're more stiff. Same with reds - they're more stiff compared to browns. If you really want to try it yourself, you can order MX switches sampler (something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Max-Keyboard-Keycap-Cherry-Sampler/dp/...).

This looks very dated. Looks just like an old HP keyboard from 2000. I have yet to find a keyboard better than Apple's.

Lots of the mechanical keyboards look like they're from the 80s. The basic design and layout hasn't changed much since then, e.g. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard or http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard

I personally have the code TKL and like it quite a bit with the thicker O-rings (reduces travel and noise), but I'd really like something like a higher-quality laptop-travel scissor switch which actuates a mechanical key switch.

I'd be willing to bet you haven't looked very hard. Sure the Apple keyboards look nice but the feel and responsiveness of the keys are far from the best.

The keys are honestly terrible in that they wear down quickly. The plastic is soft, which feels nice, but eventually rubs or scrapes away way faster than the harder plastic in older keyboards.

That aside, the low-travel feel is fantastic and it's worth the trade-off.

It sounds like you aren't familiar with mechanical keyboards and why people like them-- any similarities you're noticing between this keyboard and an old HP from 2000 are purely cosmetic.

I happen to own two keyboards: a mechanical one similar to this, and the Apple keyboard. I think the Apple keyboard is great, but finally it's a very basic laptop-style chiclet keyboard with nothing remarkable about it other than good aesthetics and compatibility with OS X. I won't bore you with the details of why people are willing to pay $100-$200 for a keyboard like this, but just know that there are good reasons.

A friend has one, while trying it, I found the space bar is to long, felt pain when pressing the alt keys with the thumbs.

The switchable layout is a nice touch. Programmable layouts would be nice. And a version without any key labels.

I really need a curved keyboard, typing on a straight one just feels cramped. Other than that, looks fancy.

Where are the ergonomics?

I would prefer MX Blue over MX Green switches.

which reminds me of the pre-assembled ergodox from ergodox-ez.com

now on indiegogo.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ergodox-ez-an-incredible-...

> Sound dampening O-rings

Copy editors: you mean "Sound damping".

> damping, adj

> 1. a decrease in the amplitude of an oscillation as a result of energy being drained from the system to overcome frictional or other resistive forces.

> dampen, v

> 2. make less strong or intense.

I'm pretty sure they meant what they said.

http://grammarist.com/usage/dampen-damper-dampener/

So you're correct -- I remember reading articles about suspension (ie: bicycle shocks) where they talked about the damping adjustments, and went through pains to differentiate between "damping" (ie: damping the rebound effect of the suspension spring) versus "dampening" (to make something damp (ie: wet))... but I guess "dampening" works all ways... I thought it was an annoying common-ish mistake, and here I am in error...

Edit: more etymology -- http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/67497/is-it-dampi...

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