Ask HN: How much raise should I be looking for when moving to US from India? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How much raise should I be looking for when moving to US from India?

7 pointslegedemon24 comments

I'm a Software Engineer working remotely from India. My current compensation is $200K. My current employer wants me to move to San Francisco. I've read that the cost of living there is very high compared to the other cities in the US itself and several times when compared to India. To address my concern, my employer has promised to increase my compensation to $250K. I have two questions here:

1. Does the raise justify the increase in the cost of living there?

2. If the answer to 1 is not, what is a reasonable equivalent compensation?

While looking for an answer online, I found an equivalent income calculator[0] based on PPP. It tells me that the equivalent salary in the US should be ~$714K. That number looks rather outrageous. Hence, this post.

[0]http://salaryconverter.nigelb.me/

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That's quiet a high salary you currently get. Usually when foreign companies hire developers in India, they do it to reduce costs(for what you get, your company could easily hire 5 really good developers, or 10 good ones). I'm guessing that your company believes that compensation should be based on what they believe the developer is worth and what they are willing to pay, instead of where the developer lives.

$250k/year is probably twice the median salary for a developer in SF. Yes it's not quiet the same as it would be in India, but still is pretty good. I personally would take it, just because I feel it's a better place to live and work.

To put it into perspective, Google pays it's CFO a base salary of $650K a year. Of course there are bonuses, and stock options that make it much more than that, but I doubt you'll get anywhere close to what the converter says.

I disagree: Given the specifics of the situation, I'd say that going to SF is a huge risk and the money dot not justify the adjustments he will have to make (culturally and financially).

Of course everything depends on the details (age, marital status, aims, etc.).

Like I said, I'd go if I were in the OPs position. Didn't give any other advice :)

@elssar: Yes, my company actually pays based on what the developer is worth and pays the same amount for same work across the world.

>I personally would take it, just because I feel it's a better place to live and work.

This is what is vexing me. I feel the same but I know that my family would need to make some pretty big lifestyle changes if I were to move there.

Thanks for the Google's CFO base salary number. That puts the converter out of equation now.And thanks for your overall perspective too.

EDIT: The salaries in product companies in India have significantly gone up in the last year and a half with so many FIIs pouring in funds. So, I think $200K would only get 2 good developers at my experience level now.

> my family would need to make some pretty big lifestyle changes

That is something I don't have to consider. That makes the decision harder. I know someone who chose to work on his own startup in India, over moving to Mountain View, because he didn't want to move his family there.

The math will always come out in favor of staying in India with a $200K salary versus moving anywhere else in the world.

However, based on your other answers about what you do, it's unlikely that this current $200K salary is sustainable. Your company can easily replace what you do with a local developer for less than $200K. They are actually doing the right thing by giving you the option to stay and move to the US.

The bigger question is, do you want to stay in India and can you accept living there with something closer to a market salary in India?

The way I see it, your savings/spending rate has to go down either way, so you might as well come visit for 2 weeks and see how you like it, and then decide.

Thanks Karthik! These are exactly the kind of insights I was looking for on HN.

> However, based on your other answers about what you do, it's unlikely that this current $200K salary is sustainable. Your company can easily replace what you do with a local developer for less than $200K. They are actually doing the right thing by giving you the option to stay and move to the US.

This is the most important thing to consider here, in my opinion. So OP, answer this: You're fired from the company tomorrow, and you're out looking for a job again. Where would you rather be? Which market would you prefer to sell your services to? You're already making a killing, and you will continue to make a killing after moving to the US. What happens after this gig is what's important here. This is potentially a rest-of-your-life decision. You can always move back to India.

1. Absolutely not.

2. That's hard to answer really: That's a life-changing decision. Living in SF might be liberating for some and very daunting for others. SF has a (considerably) lower pay-check in your case but it might offer you opportunities (startups, job offers, career choices, etc.) that you will probably not have access too in India.

The 714k as a starting salary is out of proportion, you're never going to get that in cash, but to me at first glance seems rather accurate as disparity indicator between making 200k in India and 250k in an expensive US city like SF.

Thanks for your inputs! Disparity indicator is a nice phrase to know. I had not considered it from the opportunity perspective but will add it to the list of pros and cons. Some of the cool start-ups I'd love to work with are definitely in SF.

Payscale shows The top salary for a software engineer in Índia to be around 130k USD. If we are talking about The same currency, and considering India's economic reality, I'd say you have the sweetest deal ever. Why move to SV and barely be able to pay the bills with a 250k USD salary? Of course money isn't everything and it might be a great cultural experience, but since you ate asking here, I assume that's not your priority.

Thanks for the answer. Yes, cultural experience is not my priority right now though I like visiting from time to time and interact with diverse individuals.

Disclaimer: I moved to the US from India as a teenager and now I am in my 30s. I visit india often. So I have a few things to share.

Moving to US from India should not just be about salary even though a salary of 200K is decent anywhere in the US even an expensive place like SF. But I will give you more things to consider than just salary:

1. Health Insurance. This is a huge one in the US. Very expensive if you pay anything out of pocket and you are at your employer's mercy for this. OF course good employers have good plans BUT what if you have to get your own ? Imagine this. Without insurance, a lot of places will give you a HUGE bill even for basic things like X-ray which are commodity in India. Yes there are lot of pluses compared to India but the costs of health in US is a huge factor to consider specially if you will live here for a long time.

2. Cultural differences. Another biggie. How open are you and your family (if married) ? Even if you are from an Indian metro (mumbai/delhi etc), the culture in the US is very different. People are a lot more independent and on a general basis, like their privacy. Indian culture is more about sharing. For example little things like salary discussion to religion to more personal things. Ppl here like to be left alone (again i m not generalizing but you get the point).

3. Access to human resources or labor. This is another biggie. In india, even if metros, you can hire a nanny real cheap. For like 5000 Rs a month, you can get a decent nanny for kids. That is less than $100 A MONTH!! Here, anything less than a $1000 is extremely unlikely to get you a decent service. That is 10 times more. I am sure this number is even higher in SF (more like 2K?). Want to hire a cook ? forget about it because not happening for $100.

So the point is that there are lot of things that Americans do on their own as access to labor is not cheap. Not the case in India. If you are used to having people do work for you in India, you will have to be a multi-millionaire to get the same service in US.

And last, think hard about the cultural differnces again. Are you willing to mingle with the local culture ? Are you willing to understand before judging ? Initially, a lot of things/people will seem weird to you but remember, they will think the same about you. Take your time, learn the culture and then try and take the good things out it and ignore the bad stuff. Don't be too one sided in your thoughts.

In my honest opinion, unless you are ok with all the points above, 200K in India beats 250K in SF hands down. You are like the top 1% in India and not even top 10% in SF.

I am going to discuss insurance with my employer. It looks like it is a pretty big deal in the US.

We've visited several countries in the past. So, cultural differences should not be a big problem but since so many people are emphasizing on this point, I think I'll come and stay for a few weeks as a worker rather than as a tourist and check it out again.

3 is definitely what is troubling for my family which is used to such comforts now.

Thanks for all your inputs!

What about US insurance? Travel costs? Relocation costs? Etc.

The baskets of goods that most PPPs use are usually skewed towards basic necessities rather than goods that middle/upper class people spend most of their money on. So wouldn't look at that.

Interesting. We haven't discussed anything about insurance. They are willing to reimburse the travel cost for me. I'll need to buy tickets for my wife though. I haven't really considered relocation costs but I think that'll be a one-time expense.

Wow. Nothing can match a 200k salary for a dev in India. SFO is intellectually more satisfying but maybe you can do a to and fro for a few weeks in a couple of years.

Partly out of curiosity, but it also might help get an accurate answer - what kind of work are you doing?

That's actually a little hard to describe exactly. In short, I do whatever needs to be done on the technical side of things - from front-end development to setting up the servers. There are two particular things that I think I'm good at - debugging and performance tuning.

I think I'll be able to call myself a full-stack developer in a few years time but for now I'm happy to be called just a RoR web developer.

Don't sell yourself short. You're a full stack developer currently. Your salary reflects that (and then some).

Yeah, at times I like to think so but I've had so many humbling experiences that I'd wait a little longer before making that declaration.

I had once worked with a senior colleague who would run process traces on the live Oracle database and uncover bugs in Oracle's code. I am at the level where I can find bugs in open source code bases about which I've no idea but not where I can find bugs only with the binary.

Then again, I see so many comments on HN about which I've no idea and which still seem relevant to what I do.

So, you see where I am right now.

Seems like you're confusing seniority with your general role. It's alright to be a mid-level full stacker. :)

Agreed.

I doubt the converter would work accurately beyond the salary bellcurve.

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