Hacker News Reader

Comment by eigenvector | Hacker News Reader

> Retail shopping is usually freaking depressing - the employees and customers are often rude, and you're bombarded from all angles with sights and sounds designed to entice (or scare) you into buying things you don't need. No thank you.

That's not about retail, that's about urban life. I live in a town of less than 2,000 people. There's one grocery store, and when you go there you recognize at least half the people inside (if you didn't already recognize their vehicle in the parking lot). In 2015, there is less need than ever for us to all live in the same few places. Remote work can offer you offer the benefits of small-town life without the loss of economic opportunities that used to go along with it.

View on HN

I find the exact opposite. Sure, in a very small town you'll constantly recognize people and be constantly recognized. But you don't have a choice. There's little chance you'll find anyone who shares your interests, and there will be little chance of spontaneity. Everyone either does know you or will think they know you when they don't. There's a lot of social cohesion and apprehension. I find this really suffocating. In an urban environment I find it easier to socialize because I know that whoever I talk to doesn't have a lot of preconceptions about me.

> In 2015, there is less need than ever for us to all live in the same few places.

That's an interesting perspective. I've heard (and believe) the exact opposite. In 2015, there's no need to incur the (well-studied) economic, environmental, and cultural costs of low population density. Not to mention it's kind of bizarre to assume that it's clearly _better_ that having a population of only 2,000 people from which to meet people and make friends.

Your environment is what you make of it. I used to live in a smaller town and now that I live in a dense metropolis, I meet people and make new friends CONSTANTLY (not even joking, just this week I've (platonically) gotten 2 people's numbers based on meeting, finding mutual interests, and both of us wanting to hang out).

> Your environment is what you make of it.

Alternatively, maybe different people genuinely prefer different environments. You appear to be an extreme extrovert, so it's no great surprise that you enjoy living in a metropolis. Other people aren't, and don't.

I think that's backwards from the usual definition of "extrovert". I don't like making small-talk with relative strangers, whether that's the store clerk, someone waiting for the same train, or what have you. So I love living in a big city.

Yes and no. I absolutely get where you're coming from; I'm an extreme introvert living in London, and the anonymity is about the only thing that makes it bearable. The flip side here, and in many (but not all) metropoles, is the near-impossibility of finding quiet, either at work (expensive commercial property pushing employers toward open-plan bedlam hell) or at home (expensive residential property pushing people into tiny thin-walled apartments).

I think the small-talk-with-everyone-you-meet thing is a characteristic of very small towns and villages. I've lived in medium-sized places that didn't have it. The introvert ideal of a blissful hermitage miles from anywhere is probably impractical, for many reasons, but I still have some faint hope of finding a liveable middle ground someday.

Modern buildings in London seem to have got the soundproofing right; of course you'll pay for it but it's worth it IMO. I live in a shared ownership (housing association owns 75%, me 25%) flat and it's completely quiet (the tradeoff is that I'm living in Tottenham as that's the only way to make it even vaguely affordable).

Sounds nice. I'm a bit further in (N4) and in an older conversion, and it's not even a tiny bit quiet.

>Alternatively, maybe different people genuinely prefer different environments.

I fully agree. My comment was in response to the fact that the person I was responding to was casting a smaller town ad unequivocally better from a social perspective (ie saying that the economic benefits of big city life have been removed so now everyone is free to enjoy the social superiority of a small town).

> You appear to be an extreme extrovert

That's a fair assumption but believe it or not I consider myself quite far from extroverted. I just kinds go through moods where I feel more social and other times enjoy being alone more. The nice thing about the city is that it offers more freedom in both directions. For those days where I don't feel like socializing, I can still go wherever I want without recognizing anyone or bumping into anyone (for the most part) if that's what I choose to do.

Small towns aren't unequivocally better, but they are better for some people, such as people like the GP who might prefer not to be constantly thrust into large groups of unfamiliar people. For a long time they weren't really an option unless you wanted to do menial work you whole life. I'm merely pointing out that they are once again an option, if the small town lifestyle is what you prefer.

I guess I misinterpreted your comment. The last sentence sounded like you were making the claim that small towns' natural advantages are no longer necessarily balanced out by their economic cost (due to remote work), and thus implying that small towns are inherently better socially than big cities. I see now that an alternative interpretation (evidently the one you meant) is that you were saying that small towns' social advantages _for GP_ are no longer necessarily balanced out by an economic cost.

Even in cities that happens, depending on the city and your lifestyle. I live in a city of 500,000 people (1.5m metro area), but I recognize people all the time, because we don't spread out randomly throughout the city on a given day. For example for groceries, I almost always shop at the three grocery stores on my street, because there's no particular reason for me to carry groceries across the city when I can just walk next door. There, I see mostly other people from the neighborhood and recognize most of the employees. I usually recognize people at coffee shops and bars where I'm a semi-regular, too. Fairly often I'll even run into people I know just out on the street or metro and stop to chat.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com