Has Japan designed the world's best bike shed? | Hacker News Reader

Has Japan designed the world's best bike shed?

guardian.co.uk

71 pointschaostheory53 comments

There is no way the world's best bike shed could have that color.

Ha, read up on http://bikeshed.com/ if you don't get this joke.

No. Not the world's best bike shed, for some people.

These garages hold the bicycle in place by the wheels. Since the bicycle can not stand upright, the bike leans. This puts pressure on the spoke. I have a heavy electric assist bicycle with bendy normal spokes. I didn't realize this until after I parked in these garages and out came my now wobbly tired bicycle. :(

I can't imagine being able to put road racing bicycles in these things either. Also the small wheeled city bicycles are becoming popular in Tokyo and these too would not be compatible.

So this garage would service the majority utility bicycles but would piss off the enthusiasts. Sigh. I have no solution.

Wouldn't this be a simple incremental improvement--hold it by the seat post, for example? Every bike has one of those, and they are pretty much in the same place. You'd also need a pair of 'arms' to keep the front wheel from falling to the side, but they would only need to provide guidance, not support.

Hanging the bike by the seat post or better yet, any part of the frame would be great. The front wheel could be secured using a Velcro strap. With bicycle floating, maybe a better oppurtunity for higher density.

hung off the wall by a wheel. http://www.tuskstore.com/images/usatusk.gif

would work for all but extremely deep rims or discs.

It should be possible to make the machine "pinch" the tire slowly until a certain pression is detected that is enough to keep the bike in place yet not too much to avoid damage.

Only assuming the bike is perfectly balanced. Any kind of imbalance will lead to a very damaging torsional force on the rim.

As you know, for most Tokyoites the use case is: bike from to the station; board the train.

If you're riding a road bike for fun or commuting then you usually don't need the station parking lot.

They also have those for cars in Japan. You drive your car into what looks like a lift/elevator and they then move it up a multistory building. You can get your car back later by typing in the position it's stored at.

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009...

http://misspentlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/car-park....

Similar systems are also used a car factories to store finished cars. This is how it looks like at Volkswagen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Autoturm_von_Innen.jpg

Very cool.

They have those on a small scale here in Italy too. I guess they become economically feasible when space is tight.

They used to have one in Ann Arbor Michigan next to the U of M Hospital.

http://www.robopark.com/ they have some installations in the US. A great way to go as you can really cram cars into that thing (not to mention the security aspect). But cities are still nervous of what happens when the software goes down and hundreds of people can't get their cars. That's about the only downside.

Note: "software goes down" is a euphemism for "the corrupt city government decided not to pay for the software license, and the company shut it down."

At least that's what happened in Hoboken.

Well yes, but I was speaking in general. The system could go down (software problem, extended power outage, broken robots, etc etc). I think the benefits outweigh that though.

Since when Japan is a designer? Japan designs nothing, japanese people do. It would be better to credit the creator of the thing instead of his country. Would'nt it?

It's just a metonymy, like "Wall Street", "Silicon Valley", etc. A bit stretched, maybe, but it's not misleading so who cares?

It seems like the technology could be improved upon drastically. From what I saw in the video, the storage density was pretty low. Bikes are hard to store, though.

You have to have a serious bicycle problem before you can justify this level of investment.

It probably works pretty well, since there's similar car-parking technology (exception: see jac_no_k's experience).

But I'm reminded of France's expensive investment in public bicycle rentals ($3500 each!!) which is not going perfectly: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/velib-bike-sharing-t...

It is a problem in the metro areas of Tokyo. The utility bicycles are unsightly and does block the sidewalk and entrances at times. I wish I had a photo handy to show what it's like near the stations. Think 100 feet of parked bicycles on the sidewalk and no way to navigate through.

There's a very large population of bicyclists in Tokyo. Keep in mind for people living in the city, the bicycle is a utility, not something ridden for sport or enjoyment. I do however enjoy passing cars on the bicycle and instigating races from bicycle road racers during my commute.

Keep in mind for people living in the city, the bicycle is a utility, not something ridden for sport or enjoyment. I do however enjoy passing cars on the bicycle and instigating races from bicycle road racers during my commute.

Your second sentence contradicts your first. How do you encounter road racers if the bicycle is "not something ridden for sport or enjoyment".

I live in a city and it is all three for me. All my trips to the grocery store are on bike, but I also enjoy the occasional leisurely ride to nowhere, and a regular "sport" ride.

But I do agree that most people don't think of a bike as a tool, they think of it as a toy. I think of cars like that, though, so I guess it is just a matter of perspective and experience.

How do you encounter road racers if the bicycle is "not something ridden for sport or enjoyment".

Road racers are a very small minority of the cycling population in Tokyo. However, almost everyone (non road racers) rides on the sidewalk. On the street there are relatively more road racers and hybrids.

Yeah, I have noticed that. Is there some rule against riding bicycles on the road in Tokyo, or do people just prefer the sidewalk. (It is illegal to ride on the sidewalk in Chicago, for example, but people do it anyway for some reason.)

Those Velib bicycles are $3500 each like the windows in my house are $30000 each - after all, I had to erect a building around them to keep them up, and that costs some real money!

Indeed. A $3500 bike does not look like a Velib. With that much money to spend, you are at the professional racing bike level. Maybe remove two zeros and you have Velib :)

This is an adaptation which makes a lot of sense in a few areas in Japan because footprint is so expensive that volume is cheap by comparison.

In my home town, it is much more economical to just buy three giant expanses of land by the train station (even though it is the most pricey real estate in town) and let people park their bikes there.

I don't know your home town, but is the train station the only place a lot of people would want to store their bikes?

Because at least where I live the center of the city is packed with bikes during the warm part of the year and some of the places have four times as many bikes as there are spaces in the bike rack.

Brett Glass here.... Frankly, I am not that surprised by the Japanese bike storage system (it's not that much different than the ones used by dry cleaners!) but am truly amazed that Poul-Henning's ancient message is still being circulated. Being flamed by PHK appears to be somewhat of a rite of passage in the FreeBSD community, by the way, so at the time I saw his remark as a backhanded compliment.

Too much trouble. I prefer http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/16892414.jpg with a heavy chain.

What I was impressed with were the bike ramp and escalator alongside the stairs. They are such simple and elegant solutions to the bikes-and-stairs problem. Dig it.

your bike becomes theft-proof

No. It just means your bike thieves need to be more technically astute. (nothing can be completely secure)

You seem completely secure in your quibbling.

Im confused :) It was just a comment that sprung out at me

The fact remains the bikes are only as secure as the system used to storing them :) no reason hacks wont spring up. I was surprised no one else here commented on it.

(no need to be vicious)

I disavow myself of any unintended vicioun, I simply wished to point out that 'nothing is completely secure' is a bit of an irrelevant nitpick.

Heh, yeh sorry - a comouter was aggravating me and I took it out here.

It might be nit picking... but it's worth pointing out. It's like marketing a hack-proof computer; there would be an outcry :) (and rightly too).

But mostly it was just a throw away observation ;)

In Japan, it's as good as theft-proof.

Brilliant ,technology to actually solve a "real" problem, we could do with one of those in high-density Cities like London.

Those stairs that allow you to roll your bike is very useful and creative too.

Bike shedding?

Where is Brett Glass when you need him?

http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=506636+517178+/u...

OK, does anyone get reminded of Minority Report when watching how the bikes get stored after entering the door?

Maybe my memory of Minority Report is rusty, but it reminded me of how people were stored after being frozen.

Pretty cool.

This is also how cars were stored in the Will Smith iRobot movie.

Oh yeah, and there's a real one managed by Unitronics Hoboken New Jersey. It's notorious for breakdowns: http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2009/05/another_dropp...

Is it safe? What if you get caught in the bike or the machinery while it's carting the bike off? One mangled customer would put them out of business.

And what happens when they lose power or their computer malfunctions?

Is fork safe? What if you poke your eyes while eating?

I don't think Japan has the culture where the customer's stupidity will lead to either them getting sued or everyone else getting scared to death because of constant media circle-jerking on a single accident/event.

I am not from Japan, so I could be wrong.

I live there and I don't think you're wrong. They would certainly not be sued out of existence, anyway - suing is rare and is considered to break the harmony (和).

I would also expect the device to detect it rather easily if the door doesn't close, or if there's too much resistance. It's not more dangerous than an elevator.

Millions of our non-ancestors stuck themselves in the eye with a sharp stick (or analogous operation). We have literally _evolved_ to avoid poking our eyes with a fork while eating! We have eyelid closure reflexes, withdrawal reflexes, avoidance reflexes: the system is as redundant as hell and all to protect your vision so you can pass your genes along. Those systems are always alert, even when you sit down to eat with a fork.

But an unattended machine that picks up bicycles and stores them is likely _not_ something that our genes will so easily protect us from. Of course our reflexes will do the best they can but one only need look at the history of man-machine accidents, indeed, to look around at the maimed among us to see what usually happens.

This is fantastic.

However can you even imagine a "too many bikes" problem in the USA? My town has many bike lanes but bikes have disappeared from even the college campus at an alarming rate as students come in as freshmen with daddy's SUV instead.

Where do you live though? In many parts of the country the weather is not conducive to biking regularly. If you visit colleges on the west coast you'll notice an infestation of bicycles but they have very nice weather year round so it's practical to rely on bikes to get around.

In cold places during winter, bike lanes double as extra room to pile snow. The trade-off is that in the spring the bike lanes are unusable until the city sweeps the streets because all sorts of debris accumulates in them. Tire-unfriendly stuff like glass and screws.

I grew up in Canada. I speak from experience. :)

Could be a function of your town. I see tons of cyclists in Chicago even when it's -10 outside. Seems like there are more and more people out everyday, and that we need a lot more bike parking downtown.

Grass is always greener...

There are lots of bikes but streets are narrow and bike lanes are nowhere to be found (I was amazed when I visited Amsterdam)

Most people ride on the sidewalk; some ride on the street but on the wrong side (contrary to the traffic!).

Most drivers don't seem to be aware of bikes. For instance, you have to take a lot of care of drivers coming from the opposite direction and turning (on their) right in front of you.

Also, most Japanese university students don't own cars and would probably envy you Americans. :-)

My favorite part about Amsterdam (and most of Europe for that matter) is that no one wears a helmet.

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