Hacker News Reader

My grandfather's favorite joke about goats:

Q. Do you know how to keep goats from jumping the fence?

A. Build a little ramp for them so they can walk over.

Ha...that's funny. In truth, the 6-inch (I think?) 'hog fence' we used (you can see it in some of the pictures) was 100% as long as there wasn't anything they could use to get a boost over.

Note: they could and did move things...often times to the fence.

It was good to get them out of those small enclosures later on, since we had a lot more of them.

I know a joke similar to that.

Q. How do you keep goats from escaping their enclosure?

A. Rinse goat meat well, rub lime juice over it (from 1/2 whole lime), place meat in a bowl, then add salt, black pepper, Scotch bonnet, thyme, allspice, curry powder, scallions, onion and garlic. Leave to marinate for at least 2 hours in the refrigerator, longer would be ideal. Heat the oil in a skillet until it is very hot, and saute the meat until golden brown. Then add the marinade, tomatoes and coconut milk, if using, and simmer for approximately 3 more minutes. Add water, reduce heat and allow to simmer for 2 to 3 hours stirring occasionally until meat is tender.

Mmm...we'll have to try that one!

...incidental apropos link; here is a video of some goats playing with a sheet of metal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58-atNakMWw

What the parent said is absolutely true.

Yeah, I love that scene. I wish I'd have thought of doing that in our place.

> I liked to say that you could add a joke to nearly any somber real-life situation and it would instantly become funny.

I know you meant "goat", but you're still speaking the truth :)

That's funny...on a whole variety of levels.

Did you end up eating them? I'd find it hard to eat them as I'd end up feeling like they were pets. Do you have any photos of them standing on your car or bike??!!

We did indeed eat some of them, but the meat wasn't as tasty as traditionally farm-raised animals. Ours lived mostly free-range, which is very good for them, but it makes their meat less 'yummy'. The meat most everyone (who eats meat) likes usually comes from animals who don't get very much exercise, and so has a lot less 'density' (not sure how to properly describe it.)

We also sold a number of them to Muslim friends and their associates for Eid al-Fitr, and even allowed them to consecrate part of our property to do the sacrifice. Previously they could find no place within hundreds of miles that would allow them to do that. That we were (and are) Christians, who not only allowed them to do this, but even encouraged it, kind of blew their minds. :)

I'll see if I can dig up some pics. It's a funny thing how so often you don't end up taking pictures of really neat, but daily things, but wish you did.

It blows my mind how you can enjoy the company of an animal and then not only eat them -- somewhat understandable as we need to eat to stay alive -- but... encouraging their ritual slaughtering? I'm speechless.

Not only "ritual" and "slaughtering" are words that should give goosebumps when used together, but even encouraging it, when you don't even believe in that barbaric procedure, it's frankly inhumane.

I don't think that the ritual slaughter of islam and conventional slaughter are different enough for the line between barbaric and non-barbaric to coincidentally somehow end up right between them.

As for slaughtering an animal that you've enjoyed the company of, I'm not sure how it is any worse than slaughtering an animal you didn't enjoy the company of. The former will give you a more intimate understanding of the impact your eating habits have, if anything.

My grandparents retired in Australia to a shoreside community with a golf course and Women's Circle. They stood it for about six months and then dropped out to become smallholders.

My grandmother was utterly sentimental; they always kept a calf, which was always called Bully, which was slaughtered after a year or so. She was quite capable of chomping though a steak while saying 'Bully was such a lovely calf that year'...

They did, however, tell stories (possibly true) about another couple of smallholders down the road who could never bear to slaughter their own pigs. So what they'd do was swap.

These days we are completely out of touch with where our food comes from.

The only civil reply to my comment above. We may not share the same opinion, but I appreciate your considerate response. My post above probably came out too harsh, that was unintended.

> I don't think that the ritual slaughter of islam and conventional slaughter are different enough for the line between barbaric and non-barbaric to coincidentally somehow end up right between them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-...

> As for slaughtering an animal that you've enjoyed the company of, I'm not sure how it is any worse than slaughtering an animal you didn't enjoy the company of.

If you actually believe that which you're saying, you'd have no problem slaughtering your dog.

Islamic ritual slaughter explicitly does not involve blunt force or death from falling. The animal is killed not by hacking, sawing or jumping at its throat, but by making a single clean cut at it with a non-serrated blade, which is not to be shown to the animal.

I'm really not trying to make a true scotsman argument here, but unnecessarily brutal treatment of animals is prevalent through the whole meat industry and sadly can't be pinned down to a particular religious practice or tradition.

I personally believe that this is an inherent problem of the industry. I think that repetitively performing these jobs hundreds of times a day requires that you have absolutely no emotional investment in the animals. Add to that otherwise stressful conditions, and you have to take care not to develop sadistic tendencies and loathing of the animals.

> If you actually believe that which you're saying, you'd have no problem slaughtering your dog.

I'd have a problem slaughtering my dog, but that's besides the point. I just don't believe that it would somehow be less humane than slaughtering some other animal. In fact, if I were to slaughter my dog, I'd probably take extra care to do it in the most humane way possible.

I totally hear your heart behind these posts. See my other response to you.

This isn't really a binary situation; we were friendly with our goats, but our dogs were practically members of the family.

Having said that, I'd have no trouble raising dogs for food if it made sense, and if we liked the way dog tastes, which we don't. Which has all kinds of cultural relevance.

So... you are saying you aren't going to eat that high horse?

I'll let the other responses to your comment, for the most part, speak for my thoughts as well. To that I will add:

I have always felt slightly conflicted about killing another living thing to eat it. But, if we are going to eat meat, I think there is some value in seeing where it comes from.

As far as the animals end, I always ensured the animal was eating some of its favourite feed, out by itself, when I shot it in the brain, top to bottom, with a .30-06. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield)

I'd argue that there's no easier way to die; the animal feels nothing. Though the shooter has something of a mess to deal with.

All in all, I'm kind of ok with this.

We're still trying to sell our farm: http://www.realms.org/selling.html

The pics are here: http://www.realms.org/selling/

None of the goats are on conveyances, and you'll notice the fences and ropes, because this was pretty early on while we were still securing the borders of our property.

It looks like a nice place to live/grow up, why are you selling it - if you don't mind me asking? I am seriously considering living moving to the countryside in a few years and I am gathering all the information/knowledge/experience I can.

The only (substantive) high-tech employer in that area laid me and a whole bunch of other people off, so we moved to silicon valley in 2009. We really like it out here, though it's insanely expensive, we're getting along well.

More importantly, there is a lot more cultural diversity out here in Santa Clara County, California compared to McDonald County, Missouri. We prefer that our son grow in a more diverse environment.

Send me an e-mail if you want to chat more about living in the country; to me, it's a very interesting topic. We spent a lot of time exploring various aspects of sustainability.

To milk a goat she needs to have had kids. The female kids can be sold on to other people who want milking goats. The billy kids get sold on for meat. It's pretty tough giving up a few days old goat kid for slaughter.

(Two Anglo-Nubians, long dead now).

Correct, we kept the females for milk. Most of the males were sold.

They're smart, too. The farmers I work with report their goats have broken into the house by lifting a latch and eaten pounds of broccoli.

And by the way, goat shit makes excellent fertilizer.

Aye...I'll leave unsaid how one of our goats ended up in our attic. She had a much easier time getting around up there than I did while trying to catch her.