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Comment by PlzSnow | Hacker News Reader

NO!

I investigated nootropics extensively. If you want to know the fruits of my research:

* anything that "works" has a very pronounced psychoactive effect on the brain. Which is scary in the long-term.

* by far the biggest cognitive boost you can get is SLEEPING WELL! Do this FIRST! It's easy to fix and gives a huge boost in output.

* caffeine works as well as many nootropics, with little to no side-effects if taken sensibly. Also combine with Theanine if wanting to venture into the world of "probably works and has harmless side-effects".

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> SLEEPING WELL! [..] It's easy to fix and...

I know you meant in the normal case, but it's definitely not easy to fix for some people, like with certain health problems.

Not referring to you in particular, but it just gets a little grating when so many people talk about a good night's sleep as if it was something that anyone can just get.

I can relate to this so well, as a person who has struggled with their sleep schedule since early childhood. People suggest going to bed at the same time every night, but I think those people have the ability to fall asleep when they're given no external stimuli. For me, no external stimuli means my brain starts working overtime, keeping me up.

The more common advice is to get up at the same time every morning, regardless of when you went to bed.

This.

Does not work for me. I end up with a crushed soul and a complete inability to function.

Well, luckily there's a drug for improving sleep too

http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin

MIT has a patent on doses less than 1 mg and some(not exactly >1 mg) higher doses can have harmful effects.

Source on the harmful effects? I have not seen any credible study showing any significantly harmful effects.

Did not know about the MIT thing. That explains why it seems impossible to find melatonin in reasonable doses. It took me a long time even to find something as low as 1 mg pills here in europe (why would anyone ever want to buy 8 mg melatonin pills??)

Personally noticed a substantial strain on my cardio after taking OTC Melotonin from GNS to sleep the night before.

Trader Joe's sells melatonin that comes in does of 500mcg

It's a hormone so yes, taking it can have negative effects. It can lead to decreased natural production. You have to be careful with anything hormonal.

> It's a hormone so yes, taking it can have negative effects. It can lead to decreased natural production.

No, it can't, not all hormones work that way.

biovea.com does 1mg ones in Europe.

It is possible to patent the quantity of dosage for a given chemical? There must be more to this than you let on, no?

http://www.google.com/patents/US5449683

The filing date on that is Jul 16, 1993, so it expired several years ago.

homoeopathy could crush the patent system!

PSA: http://smile.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Melatonin-Liquid-Nat... is melatonin in drop form, with 3 drops being 0.3 mg.

See http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin for a good writeup :)

I think it's awesome that you linked to smile.amazon.com. Thanks for the reminder.

>* anything that "works" has a very pronounced psychoactive effect on the brain. Which is scary in the long-term.

What are you specifically talking about? What do you qualify as a "very pronounced psychoactive effect" "on the brain" and how is that "scary in the long-term"?

Please don't just make blanket statements without qualifying them to the rest of us. Show some evidence or reasoning to argue.

You seem to contradict yourself, because caffeine is a nootropic.

That's not a contradiction, it's a context sensitive definition substitution.

I agree with you about sleep, it's very underrated for cognitive ability and memory development.

Did your research turn up anything negative about Modafinil?

I find Modafinil to be much more powerful than caffeine, however I do worry about long term side effects, even though my research suggests they are safe to use.

See my article on the topic for more detailed, in-depth view of modafinil and start-ups:

http://swombat.com/2012/2/27/modafinil-and-startups

I've found this FAQ on modafinil, I liked it a lot. The whole site is brilliant, actually. http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil

> SLEEPING WELL

I sleep 3 to 4 hours per night. Sleeping pills leave me groggy for days, so they are out. Every 2 or 3 weeks my mind and body give up and I manage to get maybe 7 or 8 hours sleep. Insomnia sucks.

Personally, I'm curious about other supplements that can improve my caffeine usage… e.g. prolonging effect, adrenal precursors, etc.

I totally agree with you on sleep, but I also found that green tea helped with my anxiety to the point I was sleeping well.

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