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Comment by DannyBee | Hacker News Reader

I'm glad apple picked this up after so many others pushed it forward :)

But 1 port is sad, because now you have to choose between a lot of things (charging, using hdmi, whatever)

"But 1 port is sad, because now you have to choose between a lot of things (charging, using hdmi, whatever)"

No, USB Type-C allows multiple concurrent uses, such as: charging and using HDMI at the same time. See http://www.anandtech.com/show/8518/hands-on-with-usb-type-c-... : "This opens up the possibility for a dock scenario where a single cable to the monitor can charge a laptop and also mirror the laptop's display onto the external monitor, and the external monitor would also be able to serve as a USB hub for a keyboard, mouse, headsets, flash drives, and other USB peripherals."

Edit: @rakoo: I agree that in scenarios where you do not have a hub, it is annoying to have only 1 port. Even if the power brick integrates a USB hub it would be weird to have to plug a USB drive in the brick... I guess this opens a market opportunity: sell a tiny USB hub with 3 ports (type-C power in, type-C power out, type-A generic port) that is meant to be left almost permanently attached to the laptop or to the end of the power cord.

Theoretically, yes. But I'm not obsoleting my new 4K 60" screen to add a port. So if I want to output display to a monitor/projector and I'm low on battery, I better have a powered USB hub handy...

It may come with a 1-port USB plus power adapter in place of the standard power cable though?

Having a powered USB hub doesn't seem like a stretch next to a 60" monitor. It's not like the latter is very portable.

edit: vocabulary

On my desk I have two monitors, keyboard, mouse, microphone, webcam, laptop and an Antec USB charger which charges my phone, bluetooth headset, kindle and vita.

My laptop is connected to the power via magsafe and the monitors with HDMI and USB. Keyboard/mouse/webcam/microphone are connected to the monitors.

With the new USB-C plug I guess I'll be able to buy the hypothetical Antec "Super USB Charging Media Hub", which all my devices connect to. My laptop then only needs to plug into one thing.

I would really like PC manufacturers to standardize on this; it would make using laptops as nice as using non-Apple telephones/tablets/ereaders is now.

The decision to not include a single USB port is of course mind-boggling, especially given Apple's market. How are you supposed to share large files? No USB drives, no memory cards etc on the go.

With regards to sharing of files: it's a natural progression for Apple. They are moving everything to iCloud. In Mavericks, for example, they disabled syncing of notes/calendar/address book through the cable with iTunes. It feels like this is just one step further.

Needless to say, I'm not very happy about no USB just as I wasn't happy about syncing.

> In Mavericks, for example, they disabled syncing of notes/calendar/address book through the cable with iTunes.

They eventually released an update that re-enabled it, and it still works in Yosemite.

Hey thanks for this. I tested it out on Mavericks, and the only thing that doesn't sync anymore is the notes. Maybe I just can't find the setting in iTunes to sync that as well...

With all of those peripherals, I think it's clear you're not the intended market for this specific device and its single port strategy.

I'd think the opposite since his peripherals are fixed: type C is the logical extension of the thunderbolt display, with a single cable end to plug in when you reach your desk with your laptop.

I'm in a somewhat similar situation, when I reach home I plug in power, network, external display and USB devices, but these things don't move with me, they're fixed desk accessories. I've got a separate set of them at work.

Yes, but how do you plug your new USB key and your charger at the same time ? The only solution is to bring a hub with you everywhere.

I expect the charger will be a USB hub.

surprised this wasn't addressed in the keynote. I can see a lot of clever Apple-y solutions to this problem.

surprised this wasn't addressed in the keynote. I can see a lot of clever Apple-y solutions to this problem.

It wasn't addressed because Apple offers no solution (yet?).

It's not.

If you need expansibility and are running a large external monitor, that sounds pretty 'professional' to me.

Currently Apple offers these two:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av...

and

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multip...

Unfortunately both only have 1080p HD. Let's hope there will be a (mini-)DVI version with a higher resolution soon.

Thanks for the links! Both of those are quite 'ewww' of course.

So we have the "USB-C Charge Cable" $29 (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJWT2AM/A/usb-c-charge-cab...) -- I wonder if that is proprietary or if any cable would work. Then there's the "USB-C Power Adapter" $49 (http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ262LL/A/apple-29w-usb-c-...).

Too bad they can't fit 29W into the smaller cube form factor which charges my phone. That would be incredible powering a laptop off of that.

Someone needs to create a much sleeker implementaion of a in-line 1-port hub. So basically something that looks like USB-C on both ends, but 4" from one side of the cable there's a quarter-sized circle of hard plastic that has the USB-C cable going through it, with another USB-C port available on the side.

I hope we will see USB-C to HDMI and USB-C to DisplayPort "cables" which are not big fat massive dongles but really function more like just a cable.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ262LL/A/apple-29w-usb-c-...

No hub.

Not every device needs to fill every use case. Apple apparently has reason to believe that use cases that require simultaneously using the port for multiple purposes are rare enough among potential users of the MacBook that they don't need to support those use cases. If this particular product doesn't provide all of the features you need, there are other products available from Apple and other manufacturers with additional features.

They're supported actually, Type C allows hubs and chaining, and Apple already has two splitters (HDMI/Type C/Type A and VGA/Type C/Type A) for sale.

They're way too expensive ($80), but give Type C is a standard port I expect Amazon Essentials or Monoprice will fix that pretty soon.

And I expect Apple will make sure those don't work, just like they did with generic Lightning cables.

They couldn't use the USB trademark if they broke compatibility with other USB-certified products.

They own Lightning themselves so they can do whatever they want there.

I completely agree that my needs may not be the needs of everyone and actually, when we're talking about Apple, they tend to be changing ways of usage rather than following them.

Another perspective I've seen recently about this is that this new Macbook will probably make people change their habit towards something traditionally only for smartphones: you'll see people keep their computer untethered for the larger part of the day, and only plug it for energy during the night. So, basically, mobile first instead of plugged first. You then have a port constantly available for whatever you want to plug on the go.

The only solution? Couldn't you buy a bluetooth keyboard?

A bluetooth keyboard doesn't solve the problem of needing to plug the computer to a charger while using a USB key.

It just means we're going to stay stuck in dongle hell.

When I'm on the road the minimalism of a Mac is nice, but at my desk, hooked up to everything I really need for heavy work, my desktop is a cluster-f of cables and adapters and wires.

To be fair, it's at least a single standard dongle hell. And now with USB-C you can have thunderbolt-style docks that give you a near-universal docking experience (ie: DVI/HDMI/dozens of USB ports/DVD drive/power) with a single cable when you're at your desk.

I agree, that is the theory. However we might be at least a year from such hubs being affordable.

I guess what I am saying is, I wouldn't want to be queued outside the Apple store for one of these. The supporting accessories aren't there yet (yes, even with Apple's two hubs/adapters).

However when they do the refresh on this line, one or two years from now, the supporting hubs, wires, and so on will be available and it will be a very fun experience.

Isn't it only dongle hell for a few years? Theoretically monitors, printers, hard drives, etc will all have USB-C connectors as well at some point.

So we are basically back to the old days of Daisy-chaining SCSI devices?

What's wrong with USB hubs?

Nothing is wrong with hubs, but now there is yet one more thing you have to have available (at least until they become more prolific in external devices)

Want a legit answer? They lack power isolation. I had a device surge/short while attached to a USB hub (it was a branded one), and everything else attached died: Keyboard, Mouse, motherboard, and a phone.

This was back pre-USB 3, and the power limit of USB has only increased since then (USB 3, USB-C, etc). This means the wires get hotter, the hub gets hotter, and any short/surge will have an even more dramatic effect (e.g. fire?).

Honestly USB hubs should be up to the same spec as a surge-protector/multi-tap, but they aren't, even though they carry enough electricity to kill someone.

http://www.amazon.com/HDE-SuperSpeed-Individual-Switches-Inc...

No, since they can all be connected to a single hub. This is way better than now, where you need one power cable, one, keyboard cable, etc.

No, we will have wi-gig devices, most things will talk wirelessly.

What does the USB-C equivalent of this [1] look like on a laptop with only one port? Apple basically killed the always-plugged-in peripheral with this revision, there's no way you could create something small enough that it wouldn't break in a bag that still provided pass-through for charging or other devices.

Do all monitors/printers/hard drives/etc provide pass through so you can charge? Or do you have to unplug your laptop from the power to get to your hard drive if you lose your dongle?

Not to mention the fact that every single mac apple peripheral you've ever owned is now worthless.

If they threw USB-C on as the charger alongside a USB and Thunderbolt I'd be stoked that mac is embracing new technology. If they put two or three USB-C ports and nothing else I'd be impressed with their commitment. With just one port, I'm left wondering what the hell they're thinking people use their laptops for.

[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2TY1K447...

I'm not sure why you'd want to use such a wireless mouse receiver with a computer that has bluetooth built in?

Also, I haven't plugged in a printer in years. Many printers have Wifi built in, and if not, you can always attach it to an Airport base station.

External storage? Use Apple's Time Capsule or any other NAS to back up your data wirelessly.

I've even seen companies use Apple TVs connected to a projector for wireless presentations.

Sure, a USB thumb drive is invaluable when you need to copy some files to your uncles 10 year old laptop with broken wifi; but you can get pretty far without wires if you want.

About 70% of the wireless mice on Newegg are not bluetooth mice. Non-bluetooth mice can have longer range or less lag for example.

This seems like the fix for dongle hell to me. You plug everything into your monitor, tucking your cables away nicely, and then you have a single cable going from your monitor into your laptop.

Most monitors do this now with a USB hub, except you have two cables (video and usb).

Too bad USB-C didn't also do microphone in.

Can't you just use USB microphones?

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

Small sample size and all, but I find USB microphones to be rather susceptible to electrical noise from stuff like USB hubs. I have to plug them directly into my machines to get a clean signal.

Probably better to use a USB microphone instead of integrated sound card A/D anyway...

I'm concerned about the feasibility of USB-powered hard drives with this setup. On my Macbook Pro, if I plug more than one of them into a hub (as opposed to separate USB ports), they start flaking out on account of lack of power, even if the hub is powered.

Well, if the hub has enough power, supports USB-PD, and the drive supports USB-PD, then it should be able to draw up to 100W of power.

Then your hub is not doing a good job of providing the 500 mA that it supposed to give to devices, or your USB powered hard drive actually requires more than 500 mA to do its thing.

I believe my drives use 500mA each for power.

Make sure the power brick that your powered hub came with is capable of powering the N+ devices you have at the same time. Most of the 4 port hubs come with 2A power supplies, however sometimes they skimp on actually being able to deliver that power.

Sounds like what you want is a ... Desktop Computer.

You mean that portable USB hard drives should be used with desktop computers, not portable laptops?

In the current era of ubiquitous saas/cloud services, abstracted file systems, multiple device types, large internal storage options, dropbox, box, drive, and icloud, there are many, many people who haven't used a USB drive in years (or ever) and have no use for one.

Other than cost (which is certainly a factor) I guess I've never understood why people schlep around a laptop and use the same laptop for their desktop by plugging in cables. I know people do this who could easily afford an additional more powerful desktop.

I use a MacPro driving 3 27' displays and also have a few portables as well. It's just a matter of synching info. I can't imagine having to deal with hooking up a portable.

mostly because a) don't need a more powerful desktop and b) the syncing is not well streamlined

I'd seriously consider an iMac if Apple would solve b.

>It's just a matter of synching info.

Synchronizing is hard. That's the problem.

I want to close my laptop after a day at the office and be able to continue working on the train or an airplane, immediately, if I need to.

This isn't easy to do without having a single machine.

To their credit, it seems Apple is at least trying to solve this problem with their recent foray into 'live' document dragging between iOS/Yosemite. Though it's hardly the ubiquitous solution we want, it is a first step.

Some of us like to own as few things as possible.

Plugging my 2013 Air into my desk when I come home isn't a big hassle - I plug in the speaker cable, the power cable, the video cable, and the USB hub. It takes me ten seconds[1] to do unless one of the cables falls; they're normally sitting right where I put the Mac. It sits on a lower shelf and runs closed; there's a Bluetooth keyboard and a Wacom tablet on my desk. (I'm an artist.)

It'd be nice to have the single connector I guess. Once I got an adapter[2] and plugged everything into that I'd save all of, I dunno, five seconds?

I'm also not driving three displays. I have never liked multiple displays. They don't work well with a Wacom tablet, and I go crazy from constantly seeing slight color differences; when I'm at a cafe, I use the laptop screen; when I'm at home, I use the external monitor.

Now you have one person's explanation of why she schleps around a single laptop that she also uses for her desktop.

1: Literally; I just timed it. 6.6s to leisurely unplug it, 10.3s to casually reconnect it.

2: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av...

Binder clips are useful for avoiding cable falls: http://www.efficientlifeskills.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/1...

This is one of the great things about buying an Apple Cinema Display. My Displayport model provides audio/video over one cable, camera/microphone over another, and a third MagSafe connector. The Thunderbolt design allows for audio/video/camera/microphone/ethernet/firewire/even more thunderbolt, plus a magsafe connector.

I think we'll see a lot of small USB hubs with a USB-C connector to your laptop and all your USB/audio/Displayport/ethernet out, so that getting back to your desk is one cable to plug in and not a half-dozen.

Apple laptops have been limited by a lack of docking ports, which is my favorite use case for having a work and home workstation. Now, instead of hooking up a power cable, monitor cable and USB hub, you slide one connector in. How is that bad?

It would not be bad, but the adapter that gives me two ports will be a part of my trip.

At airports for example I'm carrying only my MacBook and usually put in there charger and the my phone, now I have to also carry an adapter to do that.

Well with the Thunderbolt Display or various other Thunderbolt docking stations, 2 cables to the Macbook already was a reality

> I'm glad apple picked this up after so many others pushed it forward :)

To be fair, Apple had a lot of people on the USB-C standards... 'committee', second only to Intel.

Source: http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/6/7505187/apple-macbook-2015-...

Not to denigrate their work, but this happened very very late in the type-C game.

(Look at who attended what meetings, and where it was proposed, how far it was along when it was proposed, and then when apple started showing up. It looks like they saw the writing on the wall, and joined in to make sure they weren't going to get left behind)

Probably realized that they needed to go with USB-C because of cars, European regulations, etc. Finally, everyone is using one connector. PC, Mac, Android, and iOS?

Actually you are just denigrating their work with innuendo.

Actually, i have real facts, but i can't state them here, so i'm pointing you at enough data to draw your own conclusions. But sure, if you'd rather just believe whatever you like, you are welcome to :)

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that you are deceiving yourself if you think you aren't denigrating them. That is clearly your intention, and you think the facts bear you out. Why not just be honest about it?

Your comments are somewhat contradicted by the discussion on Daring Fireball. Which one of you is wrong?

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/03/14/apple-usbc

Another view is that there was a moment when they saw/realised what USB-C could do for Apple and a radically new laptop, and then became a lot more invested then.

I will guarantee you that their charger will have a port on it to pass through. Still awkward, but I can't imagine that they'd force users to choose between data and power on that one port.

I just hope the passthrough is up near the part that plugs into the laptop, or it's going to be awfully inconvenient for a lot of different kinds of peripherals.

Looks like I had it backwards. It's the other items that pass through the USB C port.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MJ1L2AM/A/usb-c-vga-multip...

I wish the power adapter itself would also have the passthrough.

One port at a time

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