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Comment by JoeAltmaier | Hacker News Reader

I told my children to do exactly enough homework to understand the subject, then stop. No busy work; no endless worksheets. If they weren't sure they understood, just ask.

You see, we had a busy family, with sports and Scouts and hobbies and trips. We didn't abdicate our life planning to their school teacher(s). We planned, and learned and performed and worked. If homework fit into that, fine. If not, fine.

Teacher, take your 8 hours and use them efficiently. Lecture less and do problems more. Have study time at school. Because you get those 8 hours and no more.

How did it turn out? One former soldier, back at University studying Mechanical Engineering. One MSCS grad at a startup in Silicon Valley. One musician (played cello for city orchestra in High School; soloed on NPR, you may have heard him) turned CS in college.

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This is basically what I did for myself. I realized pretty early on that grades weren't a very good measure for what I was getting out of a subject and excess homework/busywork wasn't a good way for me to spend my time.

Anectdote time: In my junior year AP history class my teacher insisted that for the first month of class everyone had to read the textbook and write extensive notes that he would review in class the next day.

I did it for two days before I realized it was a complete waste of my time, and on the third day when he asked me where my notes were I told him, in front of the whole class, that it wasn't helpful and I wouldn't be doing it again. He said ok and continued around the room looking at everyone's notes.

Out of a class of ~15 students I was the only one who stopped taking notes. Either everyone else got something from it or they were too afraid to stop. I bet the later. I was never an amazing student, but did end up with an A in the class and a 4 on the AP exam.

So, yeah, I'd say that if you are "designing" a homework policy it should be based around a students understanding, not the number of problems they completed on a particular assignment.

This sounds great; I wish more parents would advocate for their children in the face of poorly-designed homework policies.

How much conflict did you have with your children's teachers over the years? How much conflict did your kids have with their teachers as a result of this?

My wife took the brunt of the conflict. She took the position of presenting our plan to the teachers, not asking for permission. Teachers cautioned her, cajoled and complained. They even gave bad grades. But we had our act together, told the teachers Thanks for your input but we're doing it our way, supported the kids and let them know our family was different. Kids accepted that, because kids don't know anything else but how our family does it.

My favorite was when my wife took our 5th grader out of a class each week for a lesson with our local cello master (his only student below college level). He was well beyond grade level already, so the class was no loss to him. By that time the teacher was resigned, accepted it without a murmur.

Rereading that comment, I disagree with 'poorly designed homework policy'. Any homework is a complete misapprehension of school's place in a family's life.

They even gave bad grades.

Did this have any lasting impact? I get really frustrated when grades are used more as punishment for behavior, even academic behaviors, than they are used to represent actual learning.

Any homework is a complete misapprehension of school's place in a family's life.

I believe a good policy is grounded in teaching the role that learning outside of class time plays in your life. Some students get this from their parents; many don't. I believe a cornerstone of a good hw policy is allowing students a significant amount of choice in what they do outside of school; a student's overall learning should align with their stated academic and life goals.

I completely agree a school should not attempt to mandate what happens at home.

My kids got their self-image from their parent's support. Grades were just a number, seen once each term, that reflected what their teacher thought. Almost unrelated to their actual learning.

You sound like an awesome dad. This is the correct perspective on grades.

I wasn't allowed to get Bs. There were repercussions. I think my dad just took the lazy route, and it's easier to take the teachers' word that your kids are learning than to make sure yourself.

When I talk to with-it high-schoolers I make a point to question grades. Nobody cares, so long as you pass. Grades are incredibly easy to manipulate, anyhow, as evidenced by the jaw-dropping number of absolutely clueless high-school graduates there are.

To be clear, I don't mean to denigrate teachers. Teachers have tasks of teaching, evaluating and communicating that are not all done in equal measure. The grade can reflect noise in any of those activities. Its better to check yourself, than trust a one-dimensional grade.

Nor to denigrate parents. There's enough to do raising children, monitoring their schoolwork is not the top priority for everyone. I've had the luxury of a good paying job in a first world economy.

Cannot agree any more; this is precisely the stance I took myself in 'high school' (dutch) with - thank god - support from my parents. (mental note: support my kids when they're doing this themselves)

IMO there's no point in forcing yourself into doing more work for subjects you really don't care about.

Luckily, here in Holland highschool grades don't really matter that much unless you're trying to get into med-school.

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