An $89 remanufactured Ubuntu workstation
symplepc.com
symplepc.com
That's what makes the eco pitch interesting - they're reducing e-waste, which is good, but energy efficiency on newer boxes (especially if you just need minimal performance) is worlds better than what these are offering. On the one hand, the recycling is great, but on the other hand, it's like putting a 1953 Chevy back on the road - sure, we didn't have to manufacture another one, but it still might not be the best thing for the environment.
Not really...
with RDP/SSH/Telnet/etc, you can access this without the need a dedicated keyboard/mouse/monitor.
Also, I can live without a laptop due to my "phablet". I already have a desktop. Something like this would be a good for hiding a server (or two) somewhere.
The question is... the energy saved by reusing this. The energy saved by not destroying this. The landfill space not taken up by this...
Is it enough to offset the energy savings on newer pc's that are more powerful but use less energy? What is the tipping point that makes a new machine better?
I think the target is to make this the terminal. I don't see too many people going out of their way to remote into a low spec machine like this.
An ARM SoC would do this same job much faster probably at much less cost, with FAR less energy consumption.
And apparently Intel has the same thing with it's atom chip: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/01/intels-compute-stick-...
With high capacity flash getting fast-enough for real use, I don't see much of a need for spinning platters anymore.
It's seems like a shame to give up on all that old hardware, but technology marches on I suppose.
I was wrong.
Given the right uses, like an elementary school computer lab for learning Scratch, Logo, etc; they would be fine.
The problem is they are right on the cusp of the next cycle of Moore's Law, Raspberry Pi is now quad core and 1GB, it puts it in the same class as this machine. The cost of "good enough" compute hardware is going to zero (shipping, financial trans cost will dominate).
And I'm not just rehashing what someone else said; I've had one each of the original B, a rev 2 B, a B+, and now a Pi 2. I've used the same power supply on all four, and on the B+ and Pi 2 I don't have any issues with hotplugging flash drives and wifi adapters whereas I did on the original and rev 2 models.
I've had my B+ running 24/7 since August as a webcam server to watch my dog in the back yard, and I've only had to reboot it once for an update. It's running a Microsoft USB-powered 720p webcam and an Edimax wifi adapter directly off of the built in USB, and it hasn't once had a power issue. I've had my Pi 2 running 24/7 since I got it a couple of weeks ago, as a "light" GNU/Linux workstation I can switch to and use when my main workstation is otherwise occupied. Again, no power issues on that board.
Unless GP is referring to the flash problem of the RPi 2.0, which is readily solved by using a case, piece of tape, or an epoxy blob (which I imagine is what will be added to the manufacturing line eventually)
The solution is a current limiter of some sort. Sometimes this is as simple as initially powering the USB port through a resistor, watching until the USB voltage gets high enough, then switching over to a direct connection.
Also, as great as the RPi 2 is, I still don't think it is the same class as these machines, which have a 3x clock cycle advantage, plus much wider CPUs. For web browsing, this is going to matter way more than 4 cores.
> I haven’t tried any normal desktop applications (other than Chromium), but I’d say the Pi 2 is finally worth considering as an full-fledged educational computer (i.e., beyond the introductory toy stage).
from http://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2015/02/07/1200
With a newer monitor and the current generation raspberrypi, it should powered directly from the USB hub in the monitor. With a bolt through VESA mount, a wifi dongle and netbooting off an NFS, a rapidly deployable Raspberry Pi school lab should be easily doable.
Yeah, this. http://www.adafruit.com/product/1320 PiBow VESA Mounting Layer Plate
Monitors I would look at are (needs HDMI, speakers, internal USB hub):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6R42AH7073
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116141
DC in is nice, could run the lab off batteries or direct solar for off grid installations.
The problem is the software configuration for the NFS bootserver and making the netboot images.
Someone should make a VM image that can netboot a cluster of Raspberry Pis with a choice of roles (scratch, web browsing, quake 3, etc). With remote mounted home directories (served from ZFS, for snapshots).
One modification I'd like to see for the raspberry pi is better sleep support. I don't know if the SoC could do it, but if it could go into extra low power mode, possibly powered by a supercap, it could wakeup on external events (like an RTC) and not take any power from the USB.
I think strong local regulations, as well as an emphasis of recycling locally is the best short-term solution. It does expose the actual cost of recycling (safely) -- but also cuts energy to shipping, and can be used as a stimuli for a more re-cycle friendly value chain (eg: make sellers of electronics take the bill for recycling, and demand local, safe recycling) -- which in turn puts pressure on suppliers to deliver items that are cheaper to recycle safely.
In this sense I think Tesla is a very interesting company (even if I don't think much of the cars themselves, from an eco-perspective -- cars is a horrible means of transportation, even electric ones).
But we most certainly didn't, especially in Linux - and most people ended up having to leave them on. Heck, even the super pimped-out Linux machine I made in 2012 still has occasional issues with suspend/resume (I could probably go on a week long patch fest to try to fix it, but no thanks - I bought a macbook instead :)
Lowest first cost is a significant form of capital efficiency [as opposed to energy]. There are tradeoffs either way, and for a single moderate use computer reaching the break-even point via reduced energy footprint could easily be several years. The raw cost of running the most power hungry P4 [115w] is $151 per 24/7 year @ full load @ $0.15/kwH.
In addition, having the machine pre-loaded with Linux also offers time efficiency versus re-provisioning a new Windows machine with Ubuntu or shopping for components, etc.
None of which to say it's a good deal per FLOP or MIP or anything else. But it's not necessarily bad either.
Of course newer dual cores and more modern chipsets will use less power overall, although for less demanding uses (web, word processing) I'm not sure if there would be a huge difference.
P4's on the other hand...
There was a similar organization in Berkeley which installed Windows. They had a deal with Microsoft which allowed them to do this. But I think that ended with Windows XP.
It worked.
It's unfortunate, of course, because 4GB of older DDR1/DDR2 memory would be much more tough to find/expensive than 2.
I'm still using a 10 inch netbook running Ubuntu for my typical web work (waiting for a retina macbook air).
You can't really watch videos or use flash without feeling the slowdown. As long as you stay under 10-20 tabs you're fine.
Running an IDE is out of the question, but sublime text does fine (probably more of a CPU limitation).
AMA I guess?
Edit: I'll add I use Firefox on it. I find on Windows and Linux that Chrome takes up quite a bit more RAM than the alternatives. I use IE11 on my Windows machine with 4GB which I am using now, because Chrome would eat away my memory with the same usage.
I can have four or five tabs open without much struggle. Gmail, Google Drive, Spotify, Facebook, Wikipedia, all the typical stuff works. Thre's a built in SSH client that's nice. YouTube videos play at full speed, even via Flash, up to 720p.
Performance will pale in comparison to anyone's modern machine. But this still works fine for many common uses.
I expect these refurbished PC's would have similar performance, which isn't great -- but it's probably "good enough" to get the job done, even with a modern supposedly-bloated copy of Chrome or Firefox on it.
Edit: oh, I forgot about flash. Earlier today Firefox with one tab was hovering at 400MB and flash was at 200MB.
I think this devices should not be called green, unless they disclose power efficiency rating.
You also have the power consumption of the VGA monitor to contend with.
Are they remanufacturing in the USA?
I doubt it. Manufactoring cost for ARM SOC is $10, this thing burns it in a month.
>life cycle energy use of a computer is dominated by production (83%) as opposed to operation (17%). The yearly life cycle cost of owning a computer is about 3,000 MJ/year, half again that of a refrigerator, a much larger appliance that uses far more electricity in operation. The short lifespan of computers and the variety of computing needs of users suggests that extension of lifespan, for example by promptly reselling to users who need less computing power, is a promising approach to mitigating environmental impacts.
This is from a study[1] from 2004 of a 1990 PC, inclusive of CRT... I suspect the figures are similar if not worse, as power consumption has come down a lot while chip sizes have remained similar... regardless, the point is so strong that it seems quite likely to remain true whatever the case -- unless your idea of a 'PC' is a rPI.2, which might be useful for some of the same scenarios, but certainly not all-- it's still far from the CPU power of a 2.8ghz p4. So, in many (most?) cases this is credibly a 'green' thing.
1. http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2...
In a model using solely exchange values, it is practical to cast fungible money directly into energy and thus treat the price of a physical good as roughly equivalent to its embodied energy. [it's a plausibly reasonable first approximation].
Again to a first approximation and absent detailed figures we're unlikely to obtain easily, we could say that the $300 ARM desktop carries $210 of additional embodied energy compared with the $90 recycled machine. That's about four years of a Pentium 4 idling 24/7. This assumes that an ARM consumes zero power at idle and that no energy is consumed in the disposal of a P4.
Core 2 Duos are much more energy efficient, they are not in short supply by any means and cost about the same used ($2-3).
Are the computer parts refurbished? Otherwise I wonder where do you get 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and other older components at good prices these days?
Usually, parts get cheaper as the become replaced by newer versions, but then become expensive again.
Edit: If you're in the UK and happen to want a supply of EOL computers, I suggest Morgan Computers, e.g. http://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/14905/HP-Eli...
Is it really? It seems in line with eBay/Craigslist prices for similar hardware, expect for the "remanufactured" part.
I agree with you on the testing; if it's rigorous enough that will likely the biggest sale point.
One quote from the company and a definite (back to base) guarantee would be more acceptable to accountant than lots of small transactions on ebay/local suppliers.
We're talking about a use case where spending $500 to ten-tuple a users peak computational ability is too much of a capital investment and/or labor is too cheap to bother, so just hire more bodies and work slower.
recycling: http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/dell-environment-rec...
Packaging: http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/dell-environment-pac...
>>> Symple PC runs the open source Ubuntu Linux operating system and doesn't require you to give your data to a company you may or may not trust.
How is this possible? It has ethernet connection and so it is possible to connect to internet and thus same as any other interconnected device. How this machine will be more trustworthy than other PC's/phones?
>>> cost of $89
Following dell[1] at 500 GB hard disk is at $229. It can work safely for at least 2 years and if we go by advanced replacement warranty of in this case, symple comes to around $170. So price-wise it is not much different but configuration of 80 GB HDD is just too small.
[1] http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-3646-small-desktop/pd?oc=f...
So did they disable Ubuntu's shopping lens[1] that's enabled by default and callbacks to a server every time you enter something in dash?
1. https://www.unixmen.com/disable-unity-online-search-feature-...
Hold on, hold on. They are directly marketing this solution to call centers, non-profits, etc., claiming it's "privacy-conscious" yet it utilizes recycled components which by their nature are from unknown sources. There is no chain of custody for recycled components. As such, do they have a lab which is verifying the firmware of any of those recycled components haven't been tampered with in a way which will result in a breach of privacy? If they do, that's cool but I'd think it would add significantly to the cost. This has been a major challenge in the re-use space for years as it's possible to tamper with firmware on motherboards, hard-drives, and network cards in a way which breaches privacy, independent of the operating system. I get the whole reuse thing, it's cool, but I'd be very cautious about making binding claims as to either the privacy or security of devices using recycled components which can be re-flashed.
"Examples come from Intel, Microsoft, Mitre, NIST, Linux distros and others. Some are public and some are available only under NDA via direct communications with the involved companies."
Is it likely to be seen in the wild often? Likely not, but that's not the point. If it's seen more than once, then you have a problem if you build an entire business selling "trusted platforms" based on recycled equipment. At that point, expect your claims to be busted. What happens the first time someone actually finds a confirmed trojan in a firmware component of a product they sell? It doesn't matter if it is legitimate or a plant, it will reverberate through the news cycle like Lenovo-Superfish and the damage will be done.
This isn't to say this business model is a bust. Just be very cautious about claiming it supports privacy. There are plenty of educational scenarios where hardware which has been compromised would be of no issue.
http://www.uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/2014_UEFI_...
Of course something could still be modified, but so could a board direct from amazon or newegg I suppose.
The process of manufacturing all of the components likely results externalities that are represented in the price. There is also the cost of how the disposed machine is processed.
You can also factor in the user behaviors. My grandmother probably is not going to leave her desktop powered on for longer than the 1 hour or so per day that she might use it. People here, myself included, are probably used to running their machines 24-7.
There's also the perspective that if this machine is going to a 10 year old kid, that it's a machine s/he can break and it won't be a big deal. This can be a significant advantage for a low income home.
1. http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2...
Also I hope that they're aware of which Intel chipsets contain PowerVR graphics and steer clear of selling any systems with those. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_graphics_process...
from disclaimers import IANAL
Basically, proprietary PowerVR graphics chip driver source was leaked. Anyone who has read the leaked code is considered "tainted" and is unable to contribute to the open-soruce, cleanroom implementation alternative PowerVR drivers.
It generally makes it difficult for ANYONE to develop open-source PowerVR drivers, as their lawyers could argue that they had seen the leaked source code and copied it (regardless of whether or not that fact is true).
And, of course, we love not having to worry about upgrades, anti-virus, backups. etc. Even the Symple would require us to manually upgrade the Ubuntu OS eventually.
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-CHROMEBOX-M004U-ASUS-Desktop/dp/B...
Pentium 4 Prescotts, which their spec implies could be used, are awful and inefficient chips. (Heck, I told people not to buy them when they were new!)
I'm sure there are many of those CPUs involved in some of these PCs; why not offer a CD+ (or even 'no P4') guarantee for +$10 or so?
So, what if you put a classroom full of students on dumb terminals all connected to one or two of these? In other words, isn't it true that the more maximally utilized these old boxes are, the less their idle power deficiencies matter?
"Can I upgrade the hardware in it?"
with the answer being "Absolutely, hack away! We have had folks put solid state drives in, or take the drives out all together..."
So maybe they just mean it's capable of being upgraded but they don't do it for you at point of sale.
Seniors who need a basic websurfer with malware proctection?
[edit] I guess third-world users too, but like others have remarked, the power consumption is pretty brutal.
"Symple PC gives classroom labs, non-profits and call centers a..."
They are aiming it at cost-sensitive groups that need to buy a bunch of workstations.
They are indeed close to the worst integrated GPUs ever made.
ARM device from China will be cheaper, smaller,more power efficient and will run Ubuntu just as fine.
> 2.8Ghz P4 or better CPU (pentium 4 is very very green)
> 80GB SATA HD (spin it yeah, Ubuntu comfortably fits to 5GB)
> VGA port ???
The warning has been going out for quite some time:
http://www.thinkoutsidetheslide.com/issue287may282013
You're wasting your money if you buy a PC with a VGA port and no HDMI port.
VGA will stop being used when it stops fitting most use cases out there, and not before. The connector standard is capable of 2048x1536 at 85hz, which, making an educated guess here, is probably a higher resolution than the monitor you're using right now. Most monitors and TV's sold nowadays are 1920x1080.
4K will probably be what finally kills it off (3840 x 2160), but I'd give that another 2-5 years before the hardware reaches enough market penetration for manufacturers to stop including the plug out of necessity.
Yes, VGA still has to be used for devices that only accept VGA (like a lot of projectors, very few of which can handle those specs), but apart from that, it should be avoided because the image quality is just that bad.
The displays are identically sharp and colorful. Nobody would be able to tell you which is connected over which interface.
Judging from its performance I suspect the original Pi would have disappointed me and been nearly useless for anything I might wanted to do with it, but the Pi2's a nice little device. It's silent and it sips power. The support and software ecosystem around it is well worth a few extra bucks over similar devices (the first time it saves you even 30 minutes of hair-pulling frustration, which likely won't be long after you open the box, you'll be glad you went with a Pi)
I'm not sure whether it'd be appropriate for what you want, but this is the case I bought:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ME5XUAG/
I'm happy with it, and I can't really imagine a case being any smaller and still protecting the Pi while providing access to its various ports (including the SD card). I'm not really into the see-through case thing, but I couldn't find an opaque case I liked better for the same amount of money or less.
[0] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MYFAAPO/?tag=nikolay-20
Sorry guys, make it smaller and I may bite.