Living in an RV as an Internet Nomad- 3G, solar, cost savings, and flexibility. | Hacker News Reader

Living in an RV as an Internet Nomad- 3G, solar, cost savings, and flexibility.

tynan.net

In the SF Bay Area, I lived on a sailboat for about 5 years. Living in a constricted space like that definitely takes some time to get used to, but I enjoyed the experience quite a bit. Sailboats are great if you want to break the habit of keeping a lot of possessions; I had my own rule that I would always be able to get the boat ready to sail within 30 minutes which meant that everything I owned always had to be either tied down or stored in a cabinet somewhere. Keeping a space that small clean was pretty easy.

I was a liveaboard in one of the marinas in So. San Francisco, so I did all my showering, etc. using the public facilities. One perk I gave myself was using cleaners for getting my clothes washed, which regardless of where you live, is pretty awesome.

I hadn't ever sailed prior to buying a boat but I spent 4-6 weeks taking group lessons and reading up on boats, and by the time I was done with my class, I had purchased a boat and was moving in. There is a lot to learn not only on how to sail but deciding what type and model to purchase.

The winters kind of sucked; it can be a little bumpy and really noisy when there is a storm, and walking 500 feet or so to the public bathrooms each morning in the rain isn't all that fun. The rest of the year was great though and I did spend quite a few years sailing around the bay on weekends.

Sailing is definitely a cool sport for hackers who like to know how things work and get optimal results. It's an interesting mix of science and history.

I'd definitely recommend it for a single person in high tech if they are so interested (unless they have a propensity to get seasick).

Very cool! I'm thinking of doing something like this myself next year or so while studying. The local marina offers cheap boat space in the off season, and I found someone who is willing to lend me their sailboat.

Should be pretty cheap housing for a student if you have the opportunity.

Would you mind sharing some more tips, experiences or fun stories?

Why did you stop? Do you still have a boat?

I ended up getting married and starting a family.

Financially, it didn't make much sense to keep the boat if I wasn't going to use it often, and I was ready try some new things, so I ended up selling it.

I used to love sailing on Lake Erie but once I started doing it seriously in the Pacific my sea sickness kept getting worse and worse to the point it was impossible. I really hope to find a cure one day or have it reverse itself (which I guess does happen).

Anyways congrats on following your dreams!

I don't have first hand experience with them, but I've heard good things about ginger (yep!) with regard to motion sickness, and the British Navy supposedly (per an "outfitter" catalog selling them) has elastic wristbands with a plastic tab/point that presses against an acupressure point in the wrist.

Mums had a 27' sailboat for a while, on Lake Michigan. I was only out on it a couple of times. I found the "keep your eyes on the horizon" suggestion quite useful; going below, out of sight of the horizon, was not a lot of fun.

The acupressure wristband works great, until you realise it's a placebo. Then the fucker stops working. I speak from experience.

I was hoping he might actually concede and discuss some downsides of RV ownership. There have to be some.

Things that jump out at me after spending a few minutes thinking about the logistics:

sewer/water, vehicle maintenance (a biggy, if your house is in the shop should something happen to your vehicle), going to the laundromat every 3 days, having friends over, winter, RV cost vs tiny studio apartment, cost of mobility vs actual leverage of that mobility, etc.

I don't live in an RV full time, but I have stayed in mine for months at a time, living and working.

Even a small RV is pretty big compared to a car. 20mpg is rare in RVs -- most get much worse.

Sewer and water usually isn't a problem. And most RV dealers that work on these things are setup to deal with folks that live full-time in the rig. If it requires overnight repairs they'll usually just roll it out for you to stay in at night and pull it back into the shop the next day.

The laundromat is a pain, but most truck stops have them and you can always use a laundry service.

Having friends over is possible but tight. Most often you can go over to their place. OTOH, most folks find RV trips a real adventure. One of my first dates with my wife was an RV trip.

Winter usually isn't a problem (depends where you live, though); RVs have propane for heat and cooking.

Cost is an issue, especially compared to owning a house. A house or condo (usually) appreciates in value. An RV depreciates like a rock. After 10 years the value of an RV plummets even more (a lot of RV parks don't allow rigs over 10 years old).

RE: Winter - My thought is that, despite having a heater, living in an RV might be pretty rough during a Midwest winter. I'm sure it could be done, but I'd wonder about the level of insulation, heating efficiency, etc. I would also wonder about snow accumulation and road handling in inclement conditions (including downpours and high winds).

This will vary with the model of RV, but most of them are pretty well insulated. Most have a metal frame with sheet foam between. The outside skin is usually fiberglass, which makes a good vapor barrier.

The volume to heat is pretty small so it's efficient. The biggest problem in really cold weather is condensation on inside of the windows. Some of the more expensive RVs have dual-pane windows with don't have this problem and are even more efficient.

Road handling varies. Most RVs are heavy which aids snow traction. And rain isn't a problem either (except for the noise). But wind -- that's a problem. Most RVs are tall and boxy. RVs with long a wheel-base in relation to length do better in wind than those with large overhangs aft of the rear axle.

I found that the faster I go the worse the handling in stiff cross-winds. Slowing down to 55mph helps a lot. Cross-winds are the worst. Headwinds suck your milage down (a lot) but a tailwind will help.

Isn't part of the point that you move during winter.

What are the details on water and sewage? My guess is this is a huge hassle outside an RV park. I don't get why the article didn't touch on this.

I described the actual process in reply to another comment a few messages down.

You can dump the waste and fill up with fresh water at a lot of different places. Most Flying J truck stops have an RV dump and potable water supply, as do many highway rest stops and state parks. Some RV dealers have facilities, too. And there's always RV parks like KOA, but you generally have to pay a small fee to dump and get water here if you're not staying the night.

Also, the RV community is friendly and connected online. Some folks have installed dump stations at their homes for their own RVs and will let you use that in a pinch if you ask nicely.

Downsides:

1. It's VERY difficult to air condition.

2. When the "car" needs repairs, you don't have a house.

Sever/water is a easy... takes about 15-45 minutes (including driving) every 10-14 days.

Laundromat is no big deal. You park in front and hang out while your clothes are washed. I also have a tiny hand powered portable washing machine that washes my four shirts, one pair of pants, and two pairs of underwear very quickly.

I have friends over almost every day, but more than four (including me) is difficult. Then again, I have a very small RV.

Winter isn't a big deal as long as your tanks are heated or the weather doesn't stay below 32f. Heating is easy and cheap.

Cost is pretty minimal. Older RVs don't depreciate much (new ones do).

It is somewhat expensive to drive at 15mpg, but I don't pay rent so it offsets somewhat. I also tend to stay in a general area for a long time so for me it's not a big deal.

Maintenance costs on a Rialta could be expensive (though, perhaps compared to the TOC of a home, they turn out to be pretty inexpensive). I own a EuroVan (in which, coincidentally, my family and I will be living out of for a time next spring), on which the Rialta is based, and repairs are not cheap, and it can be difficult to find a good mechanic who will actually look at it.

I've heard that a lot of VW dealers won't work on RVs like the Rialta or Vista -- these are too big to fit in their service bays. And from their point of view, only the front 6-feet or so is VW, the rest is something else they can't fix.

Still, everyone I know with one, or even those with EuroVans, love them.

VW dealers will grudgingly work on EVs, and a lot of independent VW garages won't touch them (and the point about the service bays is well-taken). I'm guessing you might have to travel far and wide to find an RV shop that's knowledgeable about the VW internals, too.

It's true that it's somewhat hard to find places that work on them, but there are independent shops in pretty much every city that will do it.

My last year of school was spent in a 35 foot travel trailer in Austin. After that I did think about trying to run a small web consulting company using a swarm of RVs to support the dev team. The idea being that we would just pick up and go wherever we wanted, not follow work - just move around.

One drawback that I remember was that when I was trying to study it was about half way between a car and and house. The noises from the street would come through and even strong winds would make it sway a bit. I'm the kind of person that needs to be able to block out everything to concentrate.

Now when I do the mental calculations about how long my funds would last my plan always includes buying a used RV first and foremost.

I really don't like the way that most RVs look on the inside. The interior decoration is targeted towards retired people. If IKEA would get into this I think it would be a game changer.

UNICAT builds off-road RVs that are quite IKEA-like inside, e.g.: http://www.unicat.net/en/pics/GEX46HD-MANM4x4CC-2.html

I find it fascinating that people see IKEA as good design. I am a customer and fan of the company, but their sheer size make them levelers of culture and charm eradicators. It is for furniture what McDonald is for local cuisines.

IKEA is probably the worst we Scandinavians have done the world since the Vikings; easily beating ABBA. It might even rival the Goth tribes' (claimed origin isn't far from where IKEA started, btw) destruction of West Rome.

This was depressing, I'll go support some of the good local music culture (Death/Black Metal) this weekend, to make amends for my ancestors.

(Sorry for wasting people's time, but it is Friday and I'm a bit fed up with some specs.)

I was wondering about the legal ramifications of living in an RV. I know that San Francisco doesn't allow it and occasionally cracks down on it, primarily because we have such a large homeless population that often camp in RVs. I suspect that most cities in the US don't allow you to actually live in a vehicle unless it's within a designated area (RV park for example). Maybe Austin is an exception.

Of course, it could just be an image thing. I suspect that if you kept it clean and in good repair, and moved often, then you could probably get away with it. RVs covered with graffiti, are missing panels or have 800 bike frames hanging off the back tend to make you a good target for a fine, and probably impounding.

It's not really a big deal. I've spent a total of two years in downtown Austin, LA, and SF. I've had two visits from police, both of which were basically formalities because of complaints by nearby residents. In each case they were polite and implied that I could keep doing what I was doing unofficially.

I'm sort of surprised by this. I live and work in the bad end of SOMA/Potrero and I've seen a lot of crack downs in the last 8 years. Admittedly it happens when RVs tend to group up for long periods of time but I have seen the police swoop in, impound and tow.

Might be different if it's just a single well maintained RV.

In many places you can park one night in the Wal-Mart parking lots. In small towns you can see many people parking overnight. I don't know at what point they would start to mind.

Most Wal-Marts will allow RVs to park overnight for several days as long as you don't setup camp and park far out in the lot away from the store. A lot of RVers stay at Wal-Mart on their travels.

But some cities have ordinances forbidding overnight camping, even in private lots if it's against zoning rules. These towns are usually located near tourist attractions that have pay campgrounds nearby.

You can google "wal-mart rv parking" and learn more than you ever wanted to know on the subject...

Probably as soon as you stop buying supplies, or when other customers can't don't have parking spaces. They're private lots, so you could be there forever if they allow it.

Walmart is not a safe place to park. My memory may be off, but as for retail locations; it is one of the worse places in terms of crime.

That usually depends on the city. There's a Walmart here in Mountain View, but your only worry is being robbed by ex-Yahoo employees.

It's worth bringing up the godfather of technomadics, Steven Roberts. He biked 17k miles on this "bike":

http://microship.com/bike/index.html

His list of other technomads is also noteworthy:

http://microship.com/technomads/index.html

Most recently he's been moving everything onto a sail boat:

http://www.nomadness.com/blog/

Air Conditioning – Don’t need it. It’s 100 degrees during the day here in Austin

Strikes me as an odd definition of "need" as well as an odd objection in the first place.. cars with AC and RVs with supplemental AC aren't at all uncommon.

Also, let’s consider what percentage of the world’s population doesn’t have air conditioning.

This strikes me as an invalid analogy, since one could say the same thing about potable water. I think I understand his point anyway, even though I disagree with it, but it's tough not to think he's just saying he simply doesn't want air conditioning.

Do you USE all the space between your bed and the wall?

There isn't any. Even as a child, I kept my bed flush against a corner. I'm not claustrophobic, though, so it's another objection that strikes me as strange.

Were these all just straw men?

He is right, A/C is a luxury not a necessity. I stayed in Thailand during the hot season for five weeks with no A/C. You get used to it after a few nights.

A/C is a luxury not a necessity

This strikes me as a false dichotomy, or, perhaps, an overly narrow definition of necessity.

The excluded middle is a range of technologies whose utility may easily outweigh any luxurious indulgence value on one end (hot water, flushing toilets, shoes) to items whose extravagance outweighs utility (mercury-filled and/or gold-plated audio cables, "The shoouhz"[1]).

The question being begged is whether AC has a significant effect on ones productivity or overall quality of life, and I posit that those asking "What about AC?" obviously believe that it is. I certainly do.

Disclaimer: I was raised to encourage the formation of brown adipose tissue during my early years, as a hedge against Russian continental climate winters. The rest of my life has been in Sunny California.

[1] The IT Crowd http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0609850/

I could have elaborated more. When you don't have AC you get used to it. I spent a summer in Austin in the RV and was rarely uncomfortable because I was there in the spring so I adjusted as the seasons changed.

This year I got there in the middle of summer. It was too hot so I moved to SF.

Well, he's living in SF at the moment. I usually remember the days I crank on the heat in the middle of summer so my fingers are warm enough to type.

A pickup artist who lives in an RV with two pairs of underwear to his name. Does it get any classier than that?

I like that the site shows a modal dialog after a few seconds, telling you to buy his book "Make Her Chase You". Presumably in a car pursuing your RV.

Viewing it on an iPhone, the ad also keeps auto-scrolling so that the close button is off-screen no matter what you do. There's a deep lesson in there somewhere...

Sorry about that. I will look into it. It's a tough balance to spend a lot of time creating a site and to optimize it to keep visitors.

The rest of us seem to solve it without nagware. That kind of thing gives the worst possible impression of your site; please consider whether the signup rate it generates is worth it.

Haha. If it makes you feel any better my sheets are Frette and I cook organic meals from scratch in All Clad Copper Core pots. :)

Leftovers from my previous habits, really.

No. No it does not.

If I could upvote this article 1,000 points I would. I have dreamed about being a nomad for years. Even if this guy isn't really giving an "objective" view, just the fact that someone has actually transitioned to living in an RV fills me with delirious excitement.

I guess it's not appealing unless you are like me and feel horribly constrained by the social "need" to live in one place. Houses are for people with families and such. I belong on the road.

Lots and lots of people live in RV's. The problem with the social impression of it is that it isn't a choice for most. They cant afford a house, so there is a stigma about living in an RV.

The other issue is that people want comfortable living over rational living. They want big and are rewarded by society for having big and living big.

But, this character living in an RV isn't unusual. It's actually quite popular, especially among retirees.

Do it! It's really a great lifestyle. You get one life... live it for yourself, not for other people (family excluded).

What is the cost of the RV including all the modifications & addons? Also, how often do you move the RV?

Somewhere around $2k, I'd say. I move 1-2 times per week, just within a 2-3 block radius.

I love following this guy, there is a huge community of digital nomads blogging/etc about how they pulled it off, a common term is "location independent professional." I've been on the road for 2 years now and I'm always trying to convince the constrained!

Go further. Why not try living out of a backpack? Why not live in India for 6 months, then Peru for 6 months, then wherever you want. There are no limits.

Hey guys,

That's my site. Thanks for checking it out! You may also want to see my most recent post, and HD video of the interior of the RV showing some of the customizations I've done.

http://tynan.net/video-tour-of-my-rv

I'll also go through the thread and answer some of the questions.

How do you get your electricity in towns where there isn't a lot of sun, or where they're going through a temporary rainy bout? Do you have to run a generator during the days? (I imagine the locals would frown on you running it during the night.)

I can turn on the RV to generate power, but I do that very rarely. I have batteries that tide me over for 2-3 days if they're fully charged and I'm frugal with power use.

I'm also going to put another panel on top to double my intake.

Tynan

This reminds me of the tiny house guy: http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

What about the 5GB transfer cap on almost all cellular data plans? Seems like that could be a problem.

I have an unlimited plan because I got in before the caps. I use about 25gb/mo.

If I didn't have that situation I would probably get two cards and set up a directional wifi antenna on the roof. I also work a lot in coffee shops.

The upside of limited/slow internet is that I waste less time online.

Maybe you could leach off wifi that's around? http://hotspotr.com/wifi

>Do you USE all the space between your bed and the wall?

I can't see three-quarters of my floor. Does that count as "used"?

So, does that mean you can only live in warm climates and sunny climates? Would the solar panels receive enough sunlight to live in a place that rains and is overcast a lot? Also if you do get enough energy to live, would you be able to run a heater in winters?

The best heaters are Olympian Wave heaters. I had the smallest one and it heated the RV to 20 degrees higher than outside. The largest model puts out 2.5 times the heat. They use no batteries, just propane.

Heat is easy, cooling is hard.

Seems like you'd never need cooling if you're in SF. I've needed heat in the summer in SF sometimes.

Yep, that's one of the main reasons I moved from Austin to SF. I have some ideas to cool the RV reasonably, so I may work on that next summer. It's a bit of a mission for me to make the most deluxe tiny rolling home ever.

I spend most of my time out of the country but hate staying in hotels for long periods- this would be an awesome solution while in the States for a month now and again.

I just want to know how hard it is to get rid of the poo.

Not hard. It depends one what part of the country you're in, but a lot of truck stops and state parks have RV dump stations.

Basically you just hook up a 3" diameter hose from your RV to a pipe in the ground, pull a lever, and in a few minutes you're done.

RVs usually have two waste tanks; black water and grey water. You dump the black first and follow it up with the grey to clean the hose (the grey is shower and sink water).

It's really not a big deal.

Like he said, it's no big deal at all. It's sanitary and quick... the worst part is that in some cities you have to drive a 15 miles to find somewhere to dump.

Ah, USA. Probably the only country in the world where this kind of vehicle would make sense. Americans, cherish your opportunities!

Dude. Australia? 25 million people, size of USA? Awesome for long-distance driving.

Can you elaborate please?

I meant to say that USA is probably the only country in the world with the road network of that magnitude and quality, which can enable the use of RV's. I live in Russia: our country is big, but the roads are not that well developed and the good ones are rare. And you need a serious off-road vehicle if you hope to go around the whole country (renowned designer Artemy Lebedev tried to do it and his Land Cruiser turned out to be not serious enough [1]).

To think of it, maybe you can go around Europe in RV? The thing I meant to say, RV only make sense in large country with good well-developed road network, of which there are not many.

[1] Artemy Lebedev's Ethnographic Expedition '2008

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=ru&...

sounds like a modern version of the cottage programming story

How much does an RV like that cost?

A '96 Rialto like in the article will sell for anywhere between $10k and $20k depending on milage and condition.

I have to agree with the article -- those are nice RVs and they made a bunch of them. Basically it's a VW van cab (with engine and front-wheel drive) and the rest is all built by Winnebago in Iowa.

Here's an example http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/rvs/1425504091.html

So, now you don't clean out your fridge?

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