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Comment by fenomas | Hacker News Reader

I notice several comments about culture fit and not clicking with interviewers, but it's worth keeping in mind that there isn't always a "reason" for not getting an offer. Not related to the candidate, that is. Job openings sometimes disappear for random internal reasons, or there may have been another candidate for the same position who was objectively a much better fit.

I feel you have to look at job interviews like a hand of poker or the like. There are things you can do to increase your odds, but even with perfect play not every hand is winnable.

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This exact thing happened to me today.

I applied for a Developer position back in the summer (not at Apple) and after a great phone interview I never heard back.

Today, more than 7 months later I got a call out of the blue saying the position was just advertised again and they were really disappointed I didn't apply (I didn't see it) apparently my resume was great and I scored really high on the phone interview (who knew?) so they've had me submit my resume today and have already started calling my references.

I'm very curious why it all fell in a heap 7 months ago, but I suspect internal politics or the budget dried up or some-such.

Another data point. We were hiring for a developer position and found a really promising candidate. The higher ups decided that we needed a hire for another team first which put a temporary (permanent.. ) hold on our new position. I found out much later that the candidate was never even contacted to tell them it was a no. This was a major breakdown of HR - but it shows that it's not always about the candidate.

Something similar happened to me years ago. I later learned the hiring manager had left. But when they contacted me, I had already moved on.

Another anecdotal... I originally got rejected from my current position. It wasn't until a month later that they called me back and we're like, "um yeah, actually come back and let's talk about compensation." Found out that some political hurdles were cleared up for the extra headcount needed to bring me on. Apparently the whole interviewing candidates process was started a bit earlier than it should have.

At one job, I was hired pretty quickly after a couple of interviews. About a month after I started, another developer left, and they went thru the queue of people they had interviewed at the same time I did, and hired one of them. In that case turned out it was a guy I knew.

So instead of posting a new req, when they had just gone through a bunch of interviews, they hired someone from the previous round, since it was fairly recent.

Similarly, at my current position, I interviewed and was hired. After I arrived I found that I had to do some weird paperwork each pay period, but I didn't know much about the internal organization so just did what I was told. A few months later, my supervisor told me, "When we hired you, the budget for your position wasn't approved. We were hoping we could scrap together enough funding to pay for you until we could convince management to approve funding as a permanent position."

That's a pretty terrifying thing to not be told, especially because it sounds like it could've gone either way.

Did they plan on making you an offer after just a phone screen and a reference check? If they still planned on doing an in-person I wouldn't let them go near my references until the very last step.

In some ways they have similarities with social dates, first dates. You can feel a bit nervous, might feel intimidated; did you say the right things, did you handle yourself well. Everyone says, be yourself. It's the same for job interviews, be yourself. Be prepared, show interest, don't be overconfident, etc.

And like first dates, you can do all the right things, etc. And you think things went well, but, you find out that there is no second date.

"Be yourself" is misleading advice, there are a bunch of things you need to do in an interview that aren't natural for anybody.

It depends on how you want to interpret "yourself". Our selves have very many facets. We have the at-home facet, the with-friends, the one at-work, the one in front of a court. They are all our self. It basically means be natural for the face you're putting on. Don't over do it. Don't construct something overly elaborate such that it misrepresents you and it becomes apparent. Don't over think it.

I don't have a "write some algorithm in 15 minutes" self because I never do it at my job, but here I am, trying to rush an implementation on a whiteboard.

Part of that is doing research and getting to know what the company looks for in candidates and what you can expect in interviews and how you meet them. Sometimes it won't be a good fit, and that's alright.

If they want you to be their monkey and that's not you, I'd say don't do it. Of course, that's very easy for me to say, but if you think it's unreasonable and don't like it, find another company. There is no "one" company --just like there is no "one" romantic partner. It's all about trade-offs.

I wouldn't be doing that at the job either. Who writes algorithms under time pressure on a whiteboard?

You have all day to write code on your computer at a job. There is no rush. But the interview is much different than what you'd be doing at the job.

"Be yourself" is a very weird piece of advice, and very often the wrong thing to do.

Do you want an offer? Don't be yourself: be who they need. If it requires you to be a bit different from who you are, so be it.

Once you get the offer, the power structure changes: you're the one in control. You're the one now faced with the tyranny of choice. This is when you can decide whether accepting this job would be at odds with who you are. But you know what? Even if that's the impression you got from the interview, your job at that company might still end up being different. You could end up in a team that's completely different from the ones who interviewed you. Or the job might end up being different. Or you might end up finding out you like things you didn't think you would.

Get an offer. At all costs. Then you're in charge.

I get what you're saying.

My point is when you're interviewing, do your thing, show them what you have, show them your capabilities, your dedication, vision, whatever, using your way --using 'zak_mc_krackens'' style is not going to work for me, because I will not wear it well. I won't do your technique justice. Sure, over time, one learns how to refine interviewing skills/technique, but we do it in our own 'voices'.

Don't over think it. As I said, you can do everything just right, but for whatever reason, they pick someone else. They may even consciously come to regret their decision --just like in dating. Interviewing and dating are more art than science. Sure, be prepared, show your stuff, but none of that guarantees landing the job. So there is no reason to beat yourself up for not getting the job.

>but even with perfect play not every hand is winnable.

This is so true. If you remind the person interviewing of someone they don't like, your chances lessen. You have no control over that. Also be aware that non-HR people have to interview people with not a ton of guidance or experience in interviewing. When I interviewed people I was trying to figure out was 1) can this person help us, 2) what will it be like working with them.

Also remember that it can work the other way too. You are trying to see if you'd like to work there while interviewing. At my last company we had people reject us. And when looking for a job last year I politely told a couple companies I thought would be great I was not interested after interviewing.

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