Human DNA enlarges mouse brains | Hacker News Reader

Human DNA enlarges mouse brains

news.sciencemag.org

57 pointsmrfusion25 comments

I was just thinking about this topic the other day -- how hard was it to develop the genes that separate human intelligence from other primates? In other words, if all humans disappeared from earth, then given another couple dozen million years or so, what is the likelihood of another intelligent species coming about?

Of course, human intelligence is hard to pin down -- for my personal definition, it is the ability to specifically communicate new ideas to other members (i.e., not other members just picking up a skill from observation only, but for one to be a teacher), and to be able to (as a group) remember and pass down history. Oh, and the ability to develop a space program.

Extremely high. There are a number of intelligent special on this planet right now: dolphins, elephants, whales, primates...

How likely is that there will be a sophisticated tool using civilization is a more interesting question. There are non human species that use tools[0], but they lack in sophistication. In order to start advanced technological civilization I think there are few conditions: ability to store information, ability to communicate information, and ability to utilize and improve tools.

[0] Some primates use sharp sticks as weapons.

There's also the primates that learned to modify sticks (i.e., peal off the bark) to stick in termite mounds, causing the termites to stick to the sap on the wood. This is an invented and learned behavior, but I don't know if there is any cases of a primate teaching another one this trick (vs. a primate picking it up by observation only).

> how hard was it to develop the genes that separate human intelligence from other primates?

Well, less than impossibly hard. Here's an interesting spin on this argument: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/How%20hard%20is%20artific...

And also, this was an interesting exploration of the topic, with in utero electroporation of cortical matter to induce more brain growth: http://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/11034136.pdf

> Of course, human intelligence is hard to pin down -- for my personal definition

I suggest giving up on that question. Even if humans are not intelligent, there's at least one or a few properties of human brain matter that are causing all of these unexpected and unexplained results we observe from its operation.

My bet is that, if we did disappear and another species "caught up" so to speak, the descendants of modern chimps would take the crown, with the right evolutionary pressures, in 5 million years at the earliest. That's about how long ago we forked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee%E2%80%93human_last_...

Of course I wouldn't bet too much, because it's really a bet on many, many events occurring together, and we're all familiar with the product law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

If we started a human-directed breeding program to develop chimps capable of language (arbitrarily chosen marker of intelligence) right now, I would guess we might be able to cut that time down to merely hundreds of thousands of years.

> If we started a human-directed breeding program to develop chimps capable of language (arbitrarily chosen marker of intelligence) right now, I would guess we might be able to cut that time down to merely hundreds of thousands of years.

Another option is to pick a collection of human genes that seem like they may be relevant, and just insert them into chimp genomes. Followed by something like your selective breeding program. I would be fairly surprised if it still takes 100k years.

>Another option is to pick a collection of human genes that seem like they may be relevant,

Hey, that would be cheating!

In addition to breeding for bigger brains, we should also introduce the concept of cooking. Cooking may have led to our bigger brains.

http://news.sciencemag.org/evolution/2012/10/raw-food-not-en...

Also, a bonobo has been trained in the use of fire.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5186701

And agriculture was a huge boon to our cooking!

Gee, I wonder what those mice will be doing tonight.

Unless there's something special about today's date, I imagine they'll be doing the same thing they do every night.

Are they pondering what we're pondering?

Normally I find jokes on HN to be a bit distasteful due to the manner in which discussions are typically conducted here, but this brought me a smile. :)

That cartoon feels like it was from so long ago... Does getting this reference make any of you that also happened to watch during its original airing feel old?

Pinky and the Brain reference.

"Pinky: Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight? Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mPrhwpZ-8

Pinky and Brain are genetically enhanced laboratory mice. In each episode, Brain devises a new plan to take over the world which ultimately ends in failure

It may sound weird to some, but this is the first time I learned about those characters. I wanted to point this out in oder to stress the usefulness of the comment I am replying to.

Isn't this basically the plot of the movie Deep Blue Sea?

Or this classic from my childhood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Frisby_and_the_Rats_of_NIM...

curious, how does this compare to the film?

The book is better, more so than is normally the case. Much more depth and nuance to the characters.

Someone see if Samuel L. Jackson is available.

What are we trying to do tonight? Same thing we try and do every night Pinky… Try to take over the world!

Came to this thread looking for insightful, lengthy comments by people with expertise in DNA and/or the human brain adding information to the original article, found only references to Pinky and the brain. What is the world coming to :)

To be fair, it is one of the most intelligent cartoons.

typical inflammatory response trolling posted in 3, 2, 1...

Ok, Maybe not just inflammation or hydrocephalous. I hate when the answers are not so simple but I must admit that those bulging embryo eyes were freaky.

A better picture:

http://today.duke.edu/2015/02/bigbrain

So a mouse injected with chimp DNA seems thinking about bananas and party in the beach and a mouse injected with a similar gen in the homer DNA looks pensative... interesting

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