Announcing Google Maps Navigation for Android 2.0 | Hacker News Reader

Announcing Google Maps Navigation for Android 2.0

googleblog.blogspot.com

125 pointsmqt80 comments

This strikes me as the first (user-centered) thing I've seen that is hands-down better than the iPhone experience. Yes, Android has an open app distribution policy, yes, there are multiple phones and carriers. But I haven't heard anyone say "I have to have an Android phone because of this killer app," and this seems like it could do that.

The 2 OS-level (as opposed to app-level) features that are better in Android are the widget-customizable home screen and the notification panel. But yeah, this is probably the first killer feature.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but I get the impression that the reason Apple doesn't have something like that is that they think it will ultimately be worse for the user experience. Frequently they seem to eschew flexibility and customizability in order to simplify the interface. You could say they go too far (though I'd personally disagree in most cases), but I don't think that they simply overlooked features such as that.

This map, though, looks like it could be part of the iPhone default apps.

They get a nice cut when someone buys a $50+ navigation app on the iPhone. I don't see Apple making this or any other navigation app a native application and ruining the market that already exists.

They could also get a lot of third-party revenue by wiping out all of the native apps and letting other people sell them. At some point you have to worry about the value of your platform and now they have Android to compete with.

I think Apple's recent acquisition of Placebase, a mapping company, might indicate that they're willing to compete with Google on a navigation app.

Ultimately, if they had a real keyboard and a better network, it would be better for this users' experience.

I agree on the keeping it simple part though. No need to make everything customizable when you have people that can make things more beautiful than you can. Sure, you can customize your version of van Gogh's Irises, but why bother? :-)

Customizing isn't just about beauty. It's about getting and organizing and using your phone's features in a way that make sense to you personally.

Would you buy a computer that couldn't be customized?

For some kinds of customizability, certainly, yes. Why not?

Yes. I own an XBox 360.

From the NYT article: "Google executives said that they hoped that the new Google Maps for Mobile with navigation capabilities would eventually be available on Apple’s iPhone and other devices. But they said it was up to the makers of those devices to decide whether to include the application."

Given the way that the Google Voice app for the iPhone worked out, I'm going to guess that iPhone owners won't be seeing a Google Maps for Mobile with navigation capabilities.

I wasn't there for the briefing but some of the articles about this seem to indicate that Google is already working with Apple to integrate this with the iPhone's native Maps app.

Google and Apple have a weird relationship as far as mobile goes. Apple can do really lame shit like blocking Google Voice and Latitude, but when it comes down to it Google will still force a smile and continue working with them because they want all the mobile search revenue.

"But they said it was up to the makers of those devices to decide whether to include the application."

err, I hope they meant "it's up to the users of those devices to decide whether to install the application."!?

lol, uh no. sounds like they mean it's up to apple to decide if they want to develop it since they screwed us over with other products why should we bother to develop more good ones on their platform. good for google, screw apple for not allowing google voice.

Apple have already approved other GPS navigation apps, so there's no reason why Google's version would be a problem.

Locale is my killer app. I literally bought my G1 because I knew that it had this app, and it was the first thing I found and downloaded when I got home that night.

http://www.twofortyfouram.com/

Thanks, looks good, seems to be gratis (zero cost). Had to search for the market page:

http://www.androidforums.com/market/tools--utilities-9/local...

(What's up with the bright idea of "need to view Android Market on a handset" to see a list, in the main page http://www.android.com/market/ ? Perhaps also install iTunes, eh ;-)

P.S. Sorry, the first link is NOT the market page, and it's dated 2008. Can't easily find current price ...

Agreed. Locale flips the concept of a cell-phone upside down.

Looks nice, but not a killer app in the sense that the parent is talking about. A more sophisticated settings/preferences is something only a small number of people would use.

Google maps in the car, everyone uses.

The Google Voice app made a bunch of people I know say "I have to have an Android phone."

...or "something that isn't an iPhone". Apparently there are GV apps for Blackberry as well.

Palm has a GV app too.

I have both a BlackBerry and G1 and the Google Voice app on the BlackBerry doesn't work as well. It doesn't natively take over the dialer the way it does on Android.

According to Google's VP of engineering it's also headed to the iPhone.

The problem with Google's offering here is the fact that the navigation is an online application. Roaming charges are excessive here, so the moment you leave your home country, using an online navigation app becomes prohibitively expensive.

Combine that with the fact that, especially here in little switzerland, the only time you REALLY need a navigation tool is, of course, when you are abroad.

Interesting and a nice addition (as it is free), but no replacement for the traditional solutions.

It's much more useful in the U.S, where you can get cell coverage in most major highways and cities, usually on your original cell carrier. And people often need some sort of navigation app in an unfamiliar city - the U.S. is big, and many older cities don't have the most logical street plan.

Does the EU not have some sort of unified cell network? I'd think that'd hurt their competitiveness a lot, if people can't take their cell phones with them when traveling between countries for fear of huge roaming bills.

exactly. I totally see this being useful in the US. I was just pointing out a counterpoint from Europes side.

And. No. The EU does not have a unified cell network. And as long as nobody does it, nobody will start with it as these excessive roaming charges (EUR 10 per MB is common) are a really nice way to make additional money - especially considering that people are moving around more and more.

Well, that's our problem in EU - no unified Cell Network - operators milk their intra-EU traveling customers however they want. There's some progress in EU parliament/commision, but it is so slow it will take 50 years before we get unified market. US has range of other problems with telco market though.

It won't be too long before the value of the ads placed in applications like this will be able to subsidize the entire experience, globally.

Google is in the business of bringing their services TO you, this application being one good example.

But like Google Voice and Voicemail, they are also finding ways to completely reinvent industries without locking you in. You don't have to use Google Voice, but boy it's valuable if you do.

I think at some point not to far from now, we're going to see Google Bandwidth or Google Data, which will offer IP-based wireless services for free while wiping out the concept of roaming.

Google makes money on ads through the usage of online services. The pricing structures in the telcos is frequently designed to make usage expensive/difficult.

Google's going to make it easier, again, by cutting the telcos out the equation almost entirely. Their investments in dark fibre and the future investments they'll make off the back of their ad business makes this quite a linear equation as bandwidth becomes cheaper.

Google is going to become the most feared company in the world . . . feared by business, not by users.

That is nice and scary vision of the future.

But consider the remote possibility that depressing gray reality might set in instead.

> many older cities don't have the most logical street plan.

Err... yeah, Europe has that issue too. In spades:-)

I don't think that's the main market of GPS navigation. Everyone I know uses them just to help get them to everyday new places. A store you haven't been to before, a weekend trip to another town, etc. No matter how small Switzerland is, I know that no one I know would ever be able to make our way around the entire thing without help.

I think it'll be a while before Google is able to provide mapping data internationally. That's why Google Maps Navigation is only available in the US, where it's a perfectly suitable replacement for traditional GPS devices, especially with Verizon's ubiquitous coverage.

I tend to agree. If it's tethered to a cell tower, it can't completely replace dedicated navigation devices.

Also - Like other navs, this solves the problem of 'what hotels are near me'. Unfortunately neither this solution or existing dedicated navs solve the problem of 'what hotels near me have available rooms, and how much do they cost'.

That's a much more useful problem to solve.

however, with open data in google maps, a search like that may start to yield results sooner than you think. I did a search via google maps the other day for resuraunts around me and noticed booking info in the popup. It's not far away to get the google maps navigation to leave out fully booked hotels, coffee shops etc.

Phone-based GPS can't completely replace specialty units, but it can drive them into niche markets like backcountry hiking and boating.

Most people spend 90%+ of their time with cell coverage, though. Garmin's going to lose those folks.

Thanks Google. Using this app instead of Google Maps while driving is likely increase my chances of living.

Looks like Garmin stock didn't take the news too well:

http://www.google.com/finance?q=grmn

this made me smile. Yeah. Not too well.

Nor Tom Tom:

http://www.google.com/finance?q=TOM2.AS

They just released their quarterly results, which say that average selling price is going way down. So it's not just the Google announcement: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=alkD...

didn't help GOOG either ;)

I could imagine that if the new Android 2.0 comes are released to the market with these full capabilities that the entire in-car navigation market will be shaken up. Or at the very least, prices will have to come down significantly. Looks like some market consolidation is in the near future for many of these companies.

I dunno... does the Google app cache the whole route and a reasonable surrounding distance and then rely on the GPS for the navigation?

Unless it does, there's still an enormous scope for the in-car navigation market as driving is one of the scenarios in which you are likely to lose your mobile signal or see it weakened enough to hurt a fully online navigation application.

According to CNET they do cache it: "They cache the route selection after you input a destination, so it's stored locally and you won't lose the directions if you lose the connection. If you want to deviate from the route without a connection, you're sort of screwed, but that's not any different from other cell phone navigation apps, as opposed to portable GPS devices with more storage."

From here: http://news.cnet.com/8618-30684_3-10384544.html?communityId=...

"as opposed to portable GPS devices with more storage."

The droid is rumored to come with a 16gb SD card, which can be replaced with a 32GB card. Pretty sure thats as much, if not more than any standalone GPS device.

@jkincaid

That's cool then.

I hope they're caching enough around a route to get you to a petrol station ;) That's generally why I divert and leave the motorways.

It also sucks for cell carriers who offer their own navigation services for a monthly fee. (Most of which are re-branded versions of TeleNav.)

Garmin don't make any products I want to buy anymore. I had a GPSMAP276C which though getting old was the best GPS device for me, with way more features than a phone GPS provides.

Then it got stolen, and when I went to see if there was a new/updated model, there wasn't: garmin have spent the last 5+ years making mass-produced cheaper models for in-car nav.

In addition to car nav, the last Garmin thing I bought was a Forerunner, which is obsoleted by "My Tracks" on Android (and undoubtedly other things on other platforms).

I would be very nervous holding GPS company stock. It seems inevitable the the good times are gone. If the stock price doesn't already factor in Google releasing something that improves what people can do with google maps in the car, some thing's funny.

My first reaction: "Well, I'm glad I don't work at a navigation software company today."

Seems like a great product, would be fantastic if they port it to iPhone.

From an above comment: "But they said it was up to the makers of those devices to decide whether to include the application."

I wonder what percentage of app store revenue is the navigation apps? They're not insignificant. They'd be losing a chunk of change approving this.

I suppose they'll lose more chunks of change in "street cred" or something if they don't have it and the Droid does.

I don't think they'd bother with that sort of math. Appple enjoy their slice of the app pie, but I don't think they are dumb enough to get greedy about it.

When the product manager says he navigated to the museum and is standing in front of it, he's actually on a green screen. You can see the difference in the lighting on him vs. the background. Kinda amusing.

I noticed the same thing.

This seals the deal for me, I will be buying a Droid the day they come out. Anyone want to buy a Blackberry Tour? :)

Google Maps GPS has been a dream for a long time. It's about time.. All my friends are on ATT right now.. but it's going to be really hard for me to avoid getting a Droid when it comes out. Anyone know if its chipset supports GSM-based networks like ATT? If so - me thinks I'll be getting an unlocked one.

Droid is CDMA-only but at some point, AT&T will have their own Android 2.0 device.

Does anyone know if this needs a persistent network connection? I.e. you can't download the maps in advance?

I think always having a network connection is sort of the point of developing this application for Android. Their address lookups are sent to Google's servers and the guy in that demo video is constantly mentioning "the cloud." I don't imagine this would work without a network connection since their intention is not to develop a standalone GPS device.

To me a persistant connection is a deal breaker. My Internet is incredibly expensive.

The navigation app is only available for the US, where data plans allow unlimited data so price shouldn't be an issue.

If it doesn't work off-line then it is far less useful. The problem is not so much that network connections are hard to come by, but that once you leave your little corner of the world they become stupidly expensive. I dare not think what the the bandwidth bill for using something like this for week abroad would be.

Google Maps Navigation is only available in the US.

I don't think it's really reasonable, at this point, to expect a GPS device to work worldwide. Are they supposed to store the world's mapping data locally? Google is still licensing their maps from Tele Atlas (TomTom) outside the US so I don't think it's even possible for them to provide navigation in those parts.

Storing all the worlds map data locally is unnecessary. All you need is to let the user download the maps for the part of the world he intends to visit before he leaves. If it's a licensing problem I'm sure it can be solved with money. I'll happily pay a reasonable fee for each additional country/region.

I don't think the licensing problem can be solved with money. TomTom owns the mapping data and obviously wouldn't let Google provide a navigation app since it would put them in direct competition with TomTom. That's why Google had to create their own maps for the US.

The map downloading model you're describing already exists and there are already plenty of other companies providing in-car GPS devices for that. I don't think it's appropriate to implement that sort of thing in a smartphone since the entire point is that it should always be connected.

Not sure about the mobile maps API, but in the professional version of the gMaps API, you can download all the map tiles and not have the need for a network connection to browse the maps.

If you just DL the tiles for the areas of interest, I'm sure it could be done on a phone. DL'ing the whole US might cause a storage issue for phones though (though I hesitate to say this since many phones now have rather large storage capacity and SD cards, etc.)

EDIT: From the article:

Google Maps Navigation was built from the ground up to take advantage of your phone's Internet connection.

I read somewhere earlier today that it downloads the entire route info at the start.

I wonder if this droid phone will work out of the box in Europe. I'm not interested in some crappy scheme where you buy a phone that is locked to a network. It's high time I got an Android phone, though, and this looks to be a good one.

That specific handset is for CDMA networks, specifically Verizons. There are no mainstream CDMA networks in Europe.

The app, however, is for Android 2.0, and will likely work on all devices running that -- although there's only one announced atm.

Motorola makes a crapload of GSM phones, and they sell to virtually every major carrier. I would expect a Motorola Android 2.0 world phone sooner rather than later.

Yeah, I agree. All these fancy things in google maps is usually just available for a few cities. eg. street view, high-res satellite images, detailed roads etc... It's understandable.. but I always feel left out

The downside of using internet connectivity for navigation is... that you need internet connectivity. Sucks to get part way through a trip and lose your navigation.

This could be solved by pre-fetching the whole route's data. If Google can tell where people tend to drop service, they might even decide automatically whether pre-fetching is necessary.

They cache your route, so if you lose your connection you're fine. However, if you make a detour it won't be able to recalculate a new route until it gets connectivity again.

If Google can tell where people tend to drop service, they might even decide automatically whether pre-fetching is necessary.

They collect a lot of data from mobile Maps users, so I wouldn't be surprised if they'll give it back in form of all kinds of neat automations/optimizations.

I wonder if Google will continue to forbid others from using their maps for turn-by-turn navigation (namely: Apple).

There has been a change. Google used to license map data from a 3rd party for web display, now Google is increasingly making their maps from original sources. I just checked and the turn-by-turn prohibition is still in their terms of use, but one could imagine that when the data is all Google generated and owned they could lift that restriction.

Google didn't previously own the map data (Tele Atlas did and they're owned by GPS device company, TomTom) so it wasn't theirs to license. They only recently started using their own maps earlier this month for the US.

Also, Apple recently acquired PlaceBase so they now have access to their own map data.

I can't wait for my Droid! This is going to be awesome.

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