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Minneapolis also has a serious crime problem the article completely ignores.

It has about a 10 murder rate (per 100k people). Which is over twice the national average, higher than SF, twice that of Salt Lake City and 50%+ higher than NYC (but lower than Pittsburgh).

It has over five times the rape rate of SF or NYC.

It has twice the robbery rate of NYC, Salt Lake (and higher than SF or Pittsburgh).

An assault rate higher than those other cities, and twice that of SF.

And a burglary rate three or four times higher than NYC, and twice that of SF.

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MN native here. While those stats do seem to be right (citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by...) they are for the city of Minneapolis only.

The article focused on Minneapolis, but talked about the history of the whole Twin Cities region. And when you consider St. Paul and the whole region, I think it's a pretty safe area.

Cities in Minnesota also don't annex neighboring cities, even if it makes sense. That results in a lot of small cities making up the metro area, as opposed to one large city. That can skew statistics, as Minneapolis proper makes up only a small part of our metro area.

There's a reason we call it "Murderapolis". However I don't hear the term as much as I used to.

Murderapolis was 20 years ago. Back then, even southwest was dicey. Much better these days (with the notable exception of north side).

Its a midwest thing. I grew up in the MPLS/MKE ish region and its definitely a midwest thing based on my Army travels around the country.

Half the people in the new york metro area live in the city. There is some diversity.

A quarter of the people in the Milwaukee metro area live in the city. Almost no middle class people live in the city, as a percentage. Its all dirt poor in the slums and a couple rich folks along the lake shore areas, thats it.

In MPLS, I kid you not, less than a tenth of the people in the metro area live in the city. Nobody lives downtown but the skyscrapers and some poor people, and as you note, poor people always have amazing high crime stats, so you guess the results. Detroit is pretty much the same way although I haven't spent much time there.

Basically on the coasts, there are middle and upper class people living in cities, which NEVER happens in the midwest. "the city" is a couple soulless skyscrapers, maybe a public uni, and invariably a giant crime filled slum. In the midwest all the cultural and entertainment stuff happens like a quarter mile away from the city or more, in one of the burbs.

If you see a skyscraper, on the coasts its probably a fun place to be, and in the midwest its always the opposite, if you can see a skyscraper, run...

There are two cultural / social effects that really confuse discussions between midwesterners and coasties.

1) Our cities are cultural wastelands with nothing to do except bar hop with fake ID carrying college students. All the cultural stuff happens in the burbs, music, art, parks, most festivals (makerfaire, etc), almost all our sports teams except basketball, all the bars that aren't entirely full of kids with fake IDs or need bullet proof vests to enter, all the good restaurants, all the good or upscale or specialty stores, none of that stuff is downtown in the midwest. My impression of the coasts is ALL the burbs have on the coasts is houses, if you want to buy a pop-tart or a bottle of pepsi you need to drive into the coastal city to shop, etc. So "new urbanism" and all that confuses the hell out of midwesterners. So the coasties say if I move downtown I'll have vibrant cultural activities but there's nothing to do downtown and any time I want to do something I'd have to jump in a car and drive out to the burbs.

This also confuses coasties who get imported. So they think our downtown is like Manhattan but a little smaller, and are mystified that its possibly the most boring four square miles of office buildings on the planet, and tell everyone there's nothing to do in Milwaukee but get drunk, get drugs, and get shot at... but drive out to the burbs, like maybe Brookfield, and we have concerts in the park every summer weekend, and symphony and other music in the amphitheater maybe every other weekend, at multiple sites, and festivals and fairs and street parties and parks and great shopping and great food stores and ... But you gotta drive out to the burbs to have any fun, cities are dead.

The imports have a really rough time, property developers have made these million dollar condos for california people to move into because "all the fun is downtown" back home and condos are supposed to cost a million bucks. But it doesn't work that way in the midwest, so the get all depressed / freaked out that there's nothing to do outside their million dollar downtown condo but get drunk, get drugs, get robbed, or get shot. Could buy a great house in a great school district in a great lifestyle area for a quarter mil, but no, the imports all get a million dollar downtown condo and complain there's nothing to do but get drunk.

In the midwest the cities are empty and soul-less, whereas I'm told on the coasts its the burbs that are empty and soul-less. This confuses the heck out of everyone when coasties and midwesterners talk to each other.

2) On the coasts if someone says they're from NY its over 50% odds they are literally living at a postal address in NYC. In contrast, in the midwest, most people you meet are not from the closest downtown office building city but they WILL say they are. 90% of the people who claim to live in Minneapolis do NOT live in MPLS but in a burb in the greater metro area. I tell people I'm from Milwaukee and people who know MKE feel sad for me and the coasties humorously think I grew up in an office building or in the north side slums, but I actually grew up three burbs to the west (about 15 miles?) in something of a paradise.

Some girls I dated a long time ago were "from Minneapolis" or "from Detroit" but what that really means in midwestern speak is they lived in a burb and the closest skyscraper was maybe 2 miles away in Detroit, for example.

There's a kernel of truth to this, but 'city == wasteland + cesspool' is ridiculous. I've lived in south minneapolis most of my life, and never spent any significant amount of time in the burbs. (The last time I made it outside the MSP/St. Paul limits was last november to have my wisdom teeth out, at my local dentist's referral.)

There's plenty of culture here, and I haven't been mugged/shot/raped yet. North minneapolis is essentially a different city, with its fair share of crime and other problems, which I can't speak to.

The big difference between here and a "big coastal city" is that things are a lot more spread out per person. I think this leads to everything being on a smaller scale and more distributed. Most of minneapolis isn't downtown, but mixed use residential. My peers (25-30 year olds) mostly rent houses and live with roommates. Small (3 story max?) apartment buildings are the norm.

I grew up in the KCMO area, and can confirm a similarity there. Actually, as you mentioned, I didn't actually LIVE in KC, I lived right outside in a town called Independence, but nobody really knew that town very well, so we all just said KC. Downtown was something you tended to avoid, at least until relatively recently where there's been a lot of stuff added to do, but now I live out West. People live in Seattle, but I live south of that, in Tacoma. Still say I'm from "Seattle" or "The Seattle Area." I wonder if that's a carry over from when I was in MO.

To be fair, the suburbs are full of bars, too.

In the midwest the cities are empty and soul-less, whereas I'm told on the coasts its the burbs that are empty and soul-less.

Many Midwestern cities are great, but some downtown areas (meaning the business district, not the whole city) are what you describe. They feel like New York's FiDi. It's changing, but there are blocks in the Chicago Loop that basically close down at 5:00, even though nearby neighborhoods are still active. That said, there are plenty of neighborhoods in Chicago and Minneapolis and Pittsburgh that are vibrant. There just isn't the convex, contiguous block of them that you get on Manhattan (plus parts of Brooklyn and Queens) minus FiDi.

Midwestern suburbs are even more soulless than on the coasts-- suburbia sucks everywhere-- but many Midwestern small towns are nice-- if that's the scene you want. People who live in, say, Northfield, MN will argue vehemently that they're not in suburbia, and they're right. There's a sense of community that you don't get in some California strip mall. Small towns still exist out there. The public schools are good and people go ice fishing or cross-country skiing on the weekend, but you're 40 miles from the theaters. There's a main street with good coffeeshops and pedestrian traffic... but 5 miles out is suburban crapola or woods or cornfields. Like I said, it's not for everyone, but it's a different lifestyle than the suburban one.

Also, what you're describing doesn't seem to apply to the under-35 set. Young people, even in the Midwest, favor cities and, over time, that's reviving them. But it doesn't happen quickly. It's true that there's no shame in living in suburbia in the Midwest, because people are less focused on the social status of one's neighborhood, whereas moving to Jersey if you work on Wall Street can hurt your professional future. I consider that a virtue of the Midwest (even though I dislike suburbia and personally would not want to live there).

Finally, the Midwest is more suburb-centric than New York and Boston, but it's not really any worse than California or even DC/Baltimore.

Having grown up in Chicago's Loop, it is vastly - vaaaaastly - more fun/exciting/busier afterhours now than it ever was before (or at least, in the 80s/90s when I lived there.)

Most of the culture in the Minneapolis metro area is in Saint Paul and Minneapolis. Downtown Minneapolis is not in any way a slum area. There are lots of luxury condos and apartment buildings on the Minneapolis skyway. The same for downtown Saint Paul. Downtown Saint Paul is nowhere near as vibrant as downtown Minneapolis but that is slowly changing.

Your information about Minneapolis is wrong.

As a MSP-ian with a pretty heavy classical & jazz & random stuff habit, I never go to the suburbs unless I'm visiting my grandparents. Ever. Even in quiet and boring downtown St Paul it is easy to rotate through the opera/the chamber orchestra/the Baroque Room/Studio Z/Bedlam Theater/the Amsterdam and match that with drinks at any number of establishments. Minneapolis has many more choices and more beautiful people, all downtown, including one of the most vibrant theater scenes in the country. And our city farmer's markets kick ass. The suburban ones are small and in a church parking lot.

Why would you go to a suburb for culture? I seriously don't understand. There is nothing in the MSP suburbs unless the orchestra drives out there for an outreach concert. And my friend who likes country music drives out of town to a country bar...

> Basically on the coasts, there are middle and upper class people living in cities, which NEVER happens in the midwest. "the city" is a couple soulless skyscrapers, maybe a public uni, and invariably a giant crime filled slum. In the midwest all the cultural and entertainment stuff happens like a quarter mile away from the city or more, in one of the burbs.

That is incredibly inaccurate. Pick any mid-sized midwestern city as a counterpoint.

Since a few others have said you're wrong about MPLS, I'll say you're wrong about MKE. In my experience, you're wrong, I can't imagine going to the suburbs for "culture," (except perhaps Wauwatosa) I don't know anyone who does regularly, including people who live in the suburbs.

But Downtown is fairly empty, you're not incorrect. It's Offices, and lunch for office workers. For "Culture," or rather events, I go to the neighbourhoods. Bayview, Riverwest, lower East side.

I'm not sure you're disagreeing with me.

I did some google searches on "things to do in Bayview" and the like:

Bayview: Buffalo Wild Wings chain (oooh), also plenty of places to get drunk at night. Thats about it. Is there anything to actually do in Bayview other than live there and get drunk?

Riverwest: Most of the time nothing to do. Primarily a residential area and student rentals. A couple of annual festivals (like every other small town or neighborhood in the entire state) and a couple places to get drunk although not as many as the east side. They do have a cool annual bike race, again, like pretty much everywhere else.

East side: This place is more fun. Gentrification is pushing all the fun out. Still, there are some coffee shops and there are tons of places to get drunk (like every other small town in the state, LOL). The annual Brady street festival is fun but, again, its not like its the only block party in the state LOL. Madison has better block parties anyway.

Is there any city, burb, or small town in the state that doesn't offer the exact same stuff as the examples above? I can't find anything listed that Hurley, Sparta, or Beaver Dam doesn't do better. Wheres the "culture" in those neighborhoods other than having fifty places to get drunk? (and note the burbs do not exactly lack places to get drunk, LOL, so why are they a wasteland of culture if all culture is, is getting drunk?)

Some of this might be coastie / new urbanism term redefinition. When they say "culture" they seem to mean something totally different than non-coastie / non-new urbanism people, and I think that leads to confusion much like the geographic limits of city vs burb as I previously mentioned.

(edited to add, I might be brutal but I'm fair, for at least 90 mile radius, the Milwaukee city public museum and the Milwaukee city art museum are the best cultural attractions in their field and the burbs have nothing to compare WRT museums. You have to drive down to Chicago to find better museums. Then again I only go to the art museum maybe every other year, and I get the feeling that makes me an extreme art museum patron compared to most people, especially residents, who never go to either facility at all. Actually I take the train to CHC and hang out at their museums more often than I visit the locals, which is funny.)

Having grown up in Milwaukee (the city proper) and now living in Minneapolis (the city proper), I couldn't disagree more. Milwaukee may be very racially segregated, and Minneapolis may have a high achievement gap, but neither city is all slum the way you portray. Far from it.

Interestingly, crime is much less of an issue across the river in St. Paul, even though both cities have approximately the same number of police officers per capita (according to Wolfram Alpha). Housing is also generally cheaper in St. Paul.

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