A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

> Slowly but steadily, I am learning to see my dresses and high­-pitched voice not as hurdles to my success, but as symbols of the perspective I bring to the table.

This conclusion is fantastic and shows a sense of confidence and maturity that I think all professionals of all genders need to project.

When I see articles like this (and the issue of sexism in computing does pop up quite often) I usually agree. It is there. But what can be done? I myself have been a disgusting example of a male engineer at times. And as much as I would love to permanently erase any male/female alteration of my behavior in a professional context, the reality is I do not become asexual when I go to work. I'm still a man. What to do?

There's a difference between discrimination and assumption. If I wear scrubs while visiting a friend at a hospital because I like walking around in scrubs, people will assume that I'm medical personnel working there. If you're a woman in a dress at a company where all other women in dresses are recruiters, people will assume you're probably a recruiter, until they find out otherwise. They are not discriminating against you, it's just the prior probability. It's not okay to take this personally and lash out and call them a sausagefest.

An extroverted man wearing more fashion-conscious clothing in an introverted company-shirt crowd will stand out, and might face less sympathetic reviews in interview situations. That's discrimination, and it's not okay, but it happens. Having to look the part or not when it matters is a compromise we all face. This is not a good argument for her case.

And look here: > And if that wasn’t enough, my achievement was questioned by male colleagues. I’d occasionally hear, “Oh you’re a woman, you’ll get a job at Google or Facebook just fine!” Which was the most discouraging encouragement. If I did get the internship, it was because I was a woman and if I didn’t, I’d just failed to leverage my upper edge.

They said it because there is truth to it -- she won't get the job because she's a woman, but she will have higher chances because she's a woman. In the very least, it will muddle the reasons behind the decision. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're in support of gender diversity awareness in hiring, you've given up the license to complain about it. Saying "Let's hire more women!" when selecting from a decidedly male-dominated pool fully implies that women at large are given higher chances solely for being women. Sad, but true.

At that point I'm starting to doubt the interpretation of other examples like the older guy who called her dresses "fun." Was it a creepy guy making underhanded passes, or mere a fatherly figure lending his support for her unique choices? I personally don't doubt her judgment that it was the former, but it's hard to be convinced given the way the rest of the article reads.

Unless you want to invoke an explanation that involves some combination of classism and good old-fashioned picking on (relatively) low-status nerds because it's easier and feels more natural. Then there wouldn't be much left to wonder.

(Edit: NOT saying we shouldn't point out sexism in tech, but expressing skepticism at the broader cultural narrative around how software people are uniquely ignorant and sexist relative to other professions. Ask ten women who've worked somewhere besides tech for a few years for some stories of sexism, you'll hear plenty.)

Second, the guy who said "well I should have applied for that" might have said it because two people in a row standing right in front of him just said they had awesome internships at Facebook. Sure, he could have been a total prick and said it because she was a girl, but the fact that the 2 people he asked both said they interned at Facebook completely changes the context of the conversation. If he only asked the girl and responded that way, then that would be different - and that seems to be how she's thinking about it. She's not taking into account the actual context of the conversation.

Wearing colorful, comfortable dresses sounds awesome. Yeah, I like tech T-shirts, and the latter was definitely the more common form of attire at the startup I interned at this past summer, but if someone wore a dress one day, I don't think it would be unusual for that person's manager to say "you look nice today" or "your outfit looks fun."

And regarding the interview, it makes sense that you'll get "better results" by dressing like a techie. There are tons of girls who dress like techies. Wearing a T-shirt with a tech logo on it just sends the message that you love technology. It shouldn't be an important factor in an interview, but of course the way you dress sends a particular message. Wearing a dress doesn't send a negative message in any way, but a girl wearing a tech T-shirt comes across as someone who is super into tech - for the same reason a guy wearing a tech T-shirt looks more into tech than someone who wears a business suit to an interview. The T-shirt could be completely misrepresenting that person's interest in tech, but the point is it sends a particular message during an interview.

I hate to conclude on such a sour note, but the girl the article is speaking about seems to think everyone is against her. It is absolutely possible that this girl experiences discrimination in the tech industry due to her gender, but the examples she talked about simply don't demonstrate that in a definitive way.

Most of my classes are comprised of roughly 25-30 students. Of those, roughly 20+ students are Indian, and of those 20+, 15+ are females, and I assure you they're really good!

Now, it may not be Stanford or Berkeley or whichever high-horse university some of you would like to use to dismiss this information, but in my experience there are women in CS, lots of them. It seems folks are just looking at the "bigger buzzfeed" schools or where they want for these "ohh.. I'm a girl in CS and I'm not recognized". Take a look outside these prestigious schools and the gender demographics will change. I'm not saying these don't exist, I'm just saying look around a little more.

Now, I can't speak for female presence in IT in the professional world, but with regard to those feeling belittled or taken advantage of, women are unfortunately targeted by unsolicited/creepy advances all the time, everywhere. It's not a tech industry thing, it an unfortunate all-over-the-world problem.

If when asked where one person did an internship the answer is "facebook", then yeah maybe some surprise, I guess it would be nice to intern at facebook. If the following 1,2,3 people also answer "facebook", then I too would probably think to myself "oh, I should have probably applied then". At this point, I'll just have to take Lea's word that the reaction was truly because she was a girl?!

Not to be trite, but the only thing worse than being a girl who gets Gchated pick up lines, is one who doesn't.

OK, now. What am I driving at? My view on a primary reason why there doesn't seem to be more progress is because the Liz Lemon and Jenna Maroney archetypes have yet to come up with a common strategy.

This bit of dialogue basically sums up their differences:

Jenna: Oh, I’m not worried because I have something the other actors don’t. A secret weapon.

Liz: Don’t say your sexuality.

Jenna: My sexuality!

"and I’ve been cornered by a stranger at night outside Stanford’s Gates Building when leaving office hours." This doesn't strike me as an indictment against Stanford or against Computer Science - just against men in general.

"Worst of all, a 50-­year-­old married, male coworker at one internship would regularly make it a point in passing to comment on how “fun” my dresses looked." I wasn't there, and again, I'm sympathetic to the idea that this could have been sexism - but I again wonder if this wasn't just a compliment. As a 40-year-old married male, I wonder if I can compliment my female co-workers on how they look. And at what frequency would it become the "worst of all" sexism that female had ever encountered?

"I noticed that management listened more to what my male counterparts had to say even though I was offering insightful feedback." I've seen this first-hand, and it's disgusting. I saw blatant sexism and racism in my college, as well.

I am sympathetic, but some of the examples cited seem questionable to me.

Yes, a few of her examples are a little weak, but I think it paints an overall picture that isn't hugely encouraging for the state of SV, and one that I have no trouble believing.

So, this woman's reaction is not to her discredit. Almost any person would have it. What's maybe a little sad is how much play such "dear diary" reactions get. I guess people really love a good shouting match (see the many flagkilled comments).

Those capable folks who enter a field out of genuine desire and with no obstacle other than a (real) feeling of social friction will stick with it and prevail. Good luck, outsiders. Anyway, ridiculous feelings of persecution (e.g., they think they're better than me with their college degrees - I'll show them all!) can be harnessed for productivity, so if you can't zen away your angst, use it.

For what little it may be worth to anyone reading this who is(/was) thinking about coming to Stanford, I have heard professors and grad students talk about ways to be more inclusive in their actions and language. I've heard my advisor stumble over "you guys" only to stop and correct himself with "you all". I can't speak for every lab (there are numerous, each with different cultures and norms), but hopefully I speak for everyone when I say that we grad students and the professors are at least open to learning about how we can make the CS program (and the field as a whole) a safer space for everyone, if not actively working toward that goal. If nothing else, we can promote an inclusive culture in how we speak, behave, and in what behavior we (don't) tolerate.

For Lea (and for countless others), I worry her perception of CS has been irreparably damaged. Hopefully that won't be the case going forward.

> I’ve had middle­-aged coworkers (not at Facebook, another internship) literally GChat me pickup lines (that aren’t even clever) to the point I’d avoid certain portions of the office altogether

For those who are questioning her experience, let's consider a piece of satire about bias at Hogwarts (and mentally substituting gender or other demographic of choice for religion here):

"These facts will likely surprise Hogwarts students today, especially those acquainted with the broader history of Judaism at their school... and though Spinoza’s invitation to deliver a series of lectures, in 1652, was met with protests, organizers were careful to note that it was the philosopher’s virulent anti-wizarding stance that they objected to, not his Jewish extraction.

A turning point in the story of anti-Semitism at Hogwarts came in 1920, when Jewish enrollment, buoyed by excellent Wizarding Admissions Test scores, peaked at thirty per cent. Complaints began to circulate that the “character of the place” was changing. These were vague comments, but no one mistook their meaning. The conservative Board of Governors (which, for the record, did not admit a Jew until Robert Rubin joined, in 1995) exerted enormous pressure on Headmaster Phineas Nigellus Black to “do something about it,” and the Class of 1926 was the first to be subject to the notorious Jewish quotas that would stand for almost fifty years. There were no hard numbers, of course—only a directive to the admissions committee to begin placing less weight on test scores and more on certain vaguely defined categories such as “character,” “fitness,” and “spell diction.” But it was enough.

Of course, the situation at Hogwarts had never been anywhere near as bad as at the universities in Eastern and Central Europe, where Jewish wizards as eminent as Freud and Einstein, unable to secure teaching appointments, were forced to use their magic in the service of formulating bizarre Muggle theories. Nor was Hogwarts ever the site of anti-Semitic violence, seen at too many of the Hungarian and Austrian wizarding schools during the tumultuous years after the First World War. There, student “demonstrations” often included the use of the so-called Jewish spells, cruel incantations that caused the peyes (side curls) to become scalding hot, the phylacteries to tighten around the wearer’s head—and, of course, the notorious ­“kipa spinner.”

No, Hogwarts was never the setting for any bigotry as brutal as that, and if I persist in recalling the minor injustices it is for the sake of guarding against future anti-Semitism in its most subtle forms." [1]

1. http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/true-history-jew...

I take a bus with Mexican woman whose husband beats her but she is too scared to go to law enforcement( her being an illegal immigrant and all).

The contrast between two women is insane. Yet we talk everyday endlessly about the former not the latter. I am disgusted by this whole thing. Seriously WTF.

This is what I wrote: Changing others, changing men, changing culture is very difficult. Nice to talk about it but it really doesn't happen. What one can do is to change themselves and part of that is understanding that those people are ASD are more likely to be insensitive than others and that is partially a genetic phenomena. There is nothing wrong with women being more competitive than men in general and learning new technologies by going to meetups and otherwise. For example, most programmers know Java/Hadoop and far fewer really work with Scala/Spark. Learn advanced machine learning algorithms. Have a good understanding of computer architecture and computer chip fabrication.

I have been to a number of meetups and I have never seen any hostility towards women. These tend to be rather technical where meritocracy is respected.

In sum, those in technology are not wishful thinkers. One cannot change others, only themselves. Men are not going to change at least in the short term. I have given examples of a realistic means for dealing with the situation that I have seen women and others use.

I wonder how much the media is to blame for this young woman's mindset? Did she ever consider that her boss might not be asking her opinion because she was an intern? Or just jump to I'm not getting 100% attention on a silver platter, must be sexism? It's not clear from the article.

Also, women should consider at working and at least understanding and be able to talk about higher levels of technology that many of their male counterparts have not worked with. One woman I knew who has never worried about the issues in this article got an EE degree from a top rated university and did a lot of C++ contract work at high rates. Part of her education was being mentored by men who were very competent in programming yet older than she was.

Any guy that thinks he is smarter can be "put in his place" by someone who knows technology better and can show it.

Also, women should go to Meetups where they can me people in industry and learn new technologies that they may not have had in school. In the meetups that I attend in NYC, I see relatively few women and meetups are a great place to make contacts and learn new technologies.