Ask HN: As a young developer, how can I launch a successful freelancing career? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: As a young developer, how can I launch a successful freelancing career?

70 pointskiraken42 comments

I started learning web development at an early age, and a few years back i started freelancing using the freelancer.com platform. But it's no secret that freelancer.com has bad business values and is basically ripping off all developers, not to mention it's low prices and bad clients. So i'm wandering how can i launch a successful freelancing business while being a college student, without being tide to a platform, since i don't have any experience in doing so, and don't know where to get the clients.

View on HN

Also, I hate to be "that guy", but spelling and grammar are both important if you're going to be selling $x0000 projects (and you should be). In this post alone, I noticed "wandering" and "tide to a platform". It's important. Always write as if a client is going to read it, because it's very possible that they will.

This is correct.

Just to add to this — most freelance work comes through client recommendations and word-of-mouth referrals. This translates to building a reputation, which in turn requires you take your outlook and presentation very seriously.

I'm not saying you're doing this, but in general — replying "lulz, this projet is dope" to a client will not help a freelancers case.

Another one: "it's low prices" -> "its low prices".

its -> possessive form of "it"

it's -> "it is"

OP seems not to be a native speaker of English but is doing well despite that.

Didn't really proofread my submission, and i do apologies for the poor quality of my post

Proofread everything you write. Including this post as well - "apologies" should be "apologize", "i" needs to be capitalized, and you need to include a period at the end of the sentence.

You submitted to hackernews. It made the front page. Whether or not you're a meticulous person by nature, not proofreading will suggest you have a lackadaisical attitude towards quality and correctness.

Potential clients can only assume that if you are sloppy with simple things like spelling and grammar that your work is as bad if not worse.

Consider this scenario: You take your car to a mechanic to get fixed. When you get the car back, there are oily finger prints on the hood and fender. The steering wheel is sticky and there is dust on the dashboard. Most people will have concerns about the quality of the work done.

It's the same with all professions. Your potential client probably knows little about the technical aspects of your work, so they will judge you on the basis of things that they can observe and understand.

I was a freelance designer and web developer for about a dozen years before I started my current gig.

Approximately 80% of my clients came either directly or indirectly through contacts I had met in the few years before I became a freelancer. Even for the other 20%, the knowledge I picked up during my dilbert years helped me enormously -- if I hadn't had that first-hand experience of my now-customers point of view, I'd have been far less effective at my job: I wouldn't have understood what they needed (which is often not the same as what they ask for, or what they think they need) or how best to fill those needs.

I'm a strong believer that to be a good freelancer, you have to have put in at least some time on the other side of the desk. All the good freelance money is in corporate work. Startups can't afford you. Mom-and-pops need so much hand-holding and education that it's not worth putting in the hours teaching them why what they want is physically impossible or why that custom layout costs more than the wordpress template they found on crappyfreewordpresstemplates dot com or etc. Big slow corporations are the ones with both the need and the money to spend, but to work with them you really need to be able to speak their language.

> Sixthly. I will pass on some secret freelancer knowledge. Secret knowledge is always good. And it is useful for anyone who ever plans to create art for other people, to enter a freelance world of any kind. I learned it in comics, but it applies to other fields too. And it's this:

People get hired because, somehow, they get hired. In my case I did something which these days would be easy to check, and would get me into trouble, and when I started out, in those pre-internet days, seemed like a sensible career strategy: when I was asked by editors who I'd worked for, I lied. I listed a handful of magazines that sounded likely, and I sounded confident, and I got jobs. I then made it a point of honour to have written something for each of the magazines I'd listed to get that first job, so that I hadn't actually lied, I'd just been chronologically challenged... You get work however you get work.

People keep working, in a freelance world, and more and more of today's world is freelance, because their work is good, and because they are easy to get along with, and because they deliver the work on time. And you don't even need all three. Two out of three is fine. People will tolerate how unpleasant you are if your work is good and you deliver it on time. They'll forgive the lateness of the work if it's good, and if they like you. And you don't have to be as good as the others if you're on time and it's always a pleasure to hear from you.

Neil Gaiman, Commencement Address

https://vimeo.com/42372767

I once took six months off to freelance early in my career, and failed spectacularly.

Four years later, I took six months off and tried the same, and was able to replicate my full-time salary without too much difficulty.

YMMV, my by experience is having a few years of solid, full-time employment experience (along with good portfolio, network, and all the other things a freelance career requires) will pay dividends in the freelance field - primarily in convincing potential clients you're skilled enough to accomplish their projects.

> along with ... network

I'm curious. Are you talking networking with other developers, or within a niche (e.g. with potential clients)?

Depending on what you do, other developers may be clients. As I note in my sibling comment to yours, I'm not currently doing consulting, but I get a lot of free lunches bought for me so people can pick my brain about clustering, scaling, Docker, Chef, etc.

Literally everyone you know, both professional and personally.

When staring in freelancing, at least initially, you will be casting a line out into the vast pool of the people you know, and desperately hoping someone has a need for your services, bites, and ultimately gives you some money.

Some of my initial freelancing gigs came from places like stray tweets, random run-ins at non-tech-related parties, VC friends who passed my name on to their portfolio companies, ex-bosses who did the same, etc etc.

For many, freelancing, at first, can be getting on by the seat of your pants and simply hoping the cosmos divines you with a new gig (often from somewhere or someone you never saw coming) before your savings account dwindles to zero.

This is pretty much what I was going to say. I think that the best way to be a good consultant is to first be a good creator of value and to be confident in the value you create. I didn't quite flame out doing consulting (I was doing fairly low-level stuff while in college), but knew I wasn't going to be able to eat off of it, so I went to work. I'm 27 now and, in all likelihood, I'm going to go consult again whenever my current gig peters out. Difference is that now I've stepped on many of the rakes and learned my lessons--and gotten much, much, much better than I was when I was 22. Five years isn't a long time, but it's long enough to learn a few things and be able to both create more value and explain how I create value to prospective clients.

I've been consulting/freelancing for about 13 years professionally, full-time. Started when I was 23. From day 1 until today, for me, it's all been "who you know" and "tell a friend" when it comes to getting new business.

I started asking friends and family if they needed a website, help with web work, or an office IT guy.

I found a few people who needed a website that way, did a great job, and they told more people about my services, getting me a bit more work.

How I REALLY started getting business is when I agreed to do some IT work for a couple real estate offices about once a week. The offices agreed to let me offer my web development services to the agents when I was there.

I got a lot of new clients, and those agents knew people in all types of businesses and started referring me to others, and from there, it's been non-stop word of mouth.

I also hooked up with a couple print-advertising businesses locally that needed to refer off their web work.

I stopped doing IT work after the first year.

I advertised once in the Yellow pages in 2004. Got 1 client out of it, and it was NOT a good situation. I will only work by word of mouth anymore because it's too stressful otherwise.

Not to mention, selling myself is MUCH easier when the client is referred by a good friend of their's who has already told them that I am THE person to work with. That way, when they call or email me, they are ready to get to work, and I don't have to wine and dine - which I suck at so much it's embarrassing.

I'm not offering advice here, just sharing my story because we all get the ball rolling differently, and hopefully reading about all our experiences helps you think outside the box to find your way into a long-lasting freelancing business.

I've said it on many other similar threads: Avoid freelancer.com, odesk.com, elance.com, etc. like the plague. You will not make the kind of money you need to sustain a successful freelance consultancy on any of those platforms.

I suggest the following (roughly in order of precedence): * Local networking groups for new businesses (new businesses need new websites. Easy sell.) * Give talks at local tech meetups (and in the about me section of the talk, mention that you're a freelance web developer. Make sure to follow with a really amazing presentation, and you'll probably get a couple leads after your talk) * Have an online portfolio where you list your past work with as many details about the work as possible (don't break your NDAs or anything, of course). * Join gun.io and look for work there. It looks very similar to freelancer.com and similar, but the clients on Gun know that they have to pay for quality work, and in my experience, they're willing to do so. * Contribute to an open source project related to the kind of freelancing that you want to do. For instance, I'm a PHP developer and I do a ton of work with Drupal. I've gotten almost every job through the Drupal community.

The contribution to open source bullet point is last, despite it being the most successful for me, because it's not always possible to give an open source project the level of involvement that is needed. It's also not as much of a sure-fire thing, whereas the other ones are.

Team up with an agency or group of other freelancers. Then you can specialize and do what you do best(coding or design, for example). That way a higher percentage of your hours will be billed, you'll have less stress, work will be better, client will be happier and pay more, and you'll never leave a client on a limb if something comes up because there will be a team to pick up the slack. Source: did freelancing part time for 5 years and worked with 2 agencies for 2 yrs. latter was 10x better

This.

Especially if said agency can feed you work so you don't have to do any of the hustling/selling. It's a huge peace of mind and you get to stay 95% billable.

Lean how to sell. When I was in college I got frustrated at not having software dev opportunities and only opportunities working at the mall (I went to college right after the dot com bubble). This curse ended up becoming a blessing because I learned how to empathize with what people wanted and what they were trying to accomplish.

A lot of freelancing is just being able to sell yourself. When you find a lead you have to convince them (aka sell to them) that you won't run away with their money and are trustworthy enough to finish what they asked. Each week/day/month you have to do a smaller version of this sale to convince them to continue to stick with you and pay you. Even at the end of the project you have to convince them (aka sell to them) that they should provide positive reviews for you.

Aside from selling you've got to be sure you deliver on time and perform the work asked. You'd be surprised how much of freelancing is more about soft skills (listening, empathy, communicating, saying no, etc) than technical skills.

If have any more questions don't hesitate to reach out to me at ryan at challengeacceptedhq.com

I write a newsletter on freelancing but have taken a couple months break to wrap up my book: The 7 Recurring Revenue Recipes for Freelancers.

Here's the source regarding being able to make money on elance: http://copyhackers.com/2014/12/how-to-earn-on-elance/

I second this. Well, the part about the soft skills. Of course you need to be a good web developer, but typically you won't get judged by your uber development skills. (Depends on your client though.)

Clients usually come to you (or you go to them, but preferably the first) because they are not knowledgable in the part where you specialize in. But in order to prove (show value) that you are a good web developer, you actually have to be a good salesman.

You can start dropping HTML, CSS, Frameworks, Libraries, Angular, React, Ruby, Python, Symfony, Django, Hibernate or Spring on them, it does not tell them a thing.

And once you got the gig, depending on the client, you will have to reassure them on a daily/weekly/monthly basis everything is on track so they keep believing in you.

Furthermore, in order to get some quality leads, you will have to get your name out there. I started at an early age as well, doing websites for family members and small companies in my community for a bargain. Doing so I got some exposure, got more requests and slowly raised my prices.

This is how i'm doing it and i see it's slowly working out ( creating websites and etc..). Still not expensive, so you can contact me for the next 3 months or so if you need anything ;) - some waiting time depending on your needs / how busy it is for me though.

Stay away from "doing something for big companies"... I have created a HackerNews clone without any success and a time tracking app in AngularJS for 2 big companies... They let me down bigtime and lost a lot of time ( = money) because of that -> they won't help in publicity.

Also created www.ledenboek.be - a member management application, before i found out that sporting clubs don't have money in Belgium... ( it does work great though).

I'd do it all again any time (although you should have some patience though... Not all your friends/acquintances want a website / app right now... ). I'm releasing a website tomorrow, working on one right now and got a new request for a website today. So that's 3 websites in 1.5 weeks without any publicity. Be fair to everyone, be honest also! ( don't try to cover things up, if something is hard / difficult to do. Give them an alternative). They understand if you do something a different way, if it saves a lot of time. When you notice someone isn't "communicating", but just rammeling what they want without any discussion. Stay away from those clients, they think everything is easy peasy.

When someone says they want this or that. Ask them why they want it... Some people don't know IT and give a "bad solution". If you create it, they won't be happy, because they don't realize their solution is bad! Talk to the client and discuss.

PS. And i still haven't asked my brother ( who totally needs a website, because his current one is lame for a clothing store :P ). I'm delivering a website for a collegue of him tomorrow (as mentioned). So he'll hear about it on his own work ( his girlfriend has the clothing store)..

Know how the world works, people talk - i recreated a website for a "student club" in the neighboorhood for a bargain. They'll know me in the future ;)

If you're good / honest / fair, people will come to you. Raise your prices when you have too much work.

Don't be afraid to share knowledge / they'll remember you as the guy who can help them.

If you know someone who has a problem, if one of you're clients has the solution. Redirect them (or introduce them), say something particular so your old client will know you referred him ( like one of my clients is creating an airplane, i always mention that... It is an extreme example though :P - if you don't believe me : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su1RCCxCMEs , that's the guy)

I wouldn't do odesk / elance / whatever... You have less competition in your neigboorhood and you won't have to drop your prices under the hourly wage. Talk about what you do, there are always opportunities if you LIKE what you do.

And at last, LIKE what you do. If you wouldn't do it for more then a year, then think about something else.

Pick up marketing and business skills in addition to web development skills, intern for an agency to learn how to hustle and network, intern for a product company to learn how to produce iteratively, and learn how to teach what you know even if you think everyone already knows.

Don't be afraid to specialize, over the years you'll have specialized in a number of areas as your interests and passions drift. Specializing can tell you what you do better than others.

Specializing can mean focusing on a framework but it can also mean focusing on a market. Don't always think in terms of code. For example, if you decided to focus on church sites you would be able to advertise by word of mouth (church leaders talk to other church leaders) and you would learn the needs of that industry making it easier to anticipate the needs of others in that market. Fish around, pick a few things to focus on that inspires you, and focus on that. Refine your strategy as you go.

Second the interning for an agency part. I did research work for one and learned so much in terms of business development just by understanding their work flow, how they pitch to businesses and how they find new clients.

As an aside, see if local agencies around your area are hiring freelancers. Mine did and though they didn't get any benefits, pay was regular and substantial (our freelancers probably came in about three or four days a week depending on the project load).

I don't think any of my clients know my age, nor they care. My best clients are those that I haven't met in person, and simply happened by random chance. They like my work and like that I'm good at it, they don't ask many personal questions and I'm ok with it. Now, if you do "consulting" and you are hired to come into a team and fix stuff, that might be a different story (will a 40yo dev take advice from someone half their age? I might find it a bit hard in that scenario and age might come into play).

Edit: Getting clients is hard, but I've had luck with HN's monthly "Who's hiring" and people seeking freelancer)

Hey there, I have been at this consulting gig for a long time now. I have to say managing client expectations and finding good customers is a full time job.

Keeping your small team of awesome colleagues happy is equally as hard.

I think you should use young age and low cost (hopefully) to build out some awesome products to showcase your skills. Build a portfolio, become a pro at some technology stack and write a blog about it.

Once you have a following of people on your portfolio and blog, you'll have more work than you can do and you'll be turning down the lame stuff.

If you want to talk to me, look us up at www.neosavvy.com

There is a lot of good information here. The only thing I'll add, which is present in bits and pieces is - hustle. Hustle your behind off. I have a friend rightly stated the difference between a freelancer and a full time employee is how you react when work is slow. Full-timers enjoy is, freelancers are (and should be) scared of it. Your next job is your next paycheck and its an attitude that is critically important to embrace, especially once you get a little cushion in the bank. No job should be beneath you (provided you will get compensated appropriately) you'll learn from everything you do so just keep on looking for that next thing and taking it. Along the way you'll make the connections, meet the people that will lead you to more, and ultimately better, freelance jobs. Once you have this network people will be coming to you with work and not the other way around (that's the pot of gold at the end of the proverbial rainbow.)

I personally started low, competing on price and earning 2 dollars an hour, if that, after all fees and all hours that came into building something. This is because at a time I also had to learn a lot. However, I still did my best with each project, communicated nicely and now am working with one client only who supplies me with constant stream of work at hourly rate that none of these job sites ever offer.

The lesson is, do good job, be nice and eventually you will find your way out. As everywhere in life, best opportunities are usually not readily accessible.

Also, I don't hide my age or that I'm a student. I have a proven track record and that's all that matters.

@Zerobrainwash - agreed a proven track record and real results will win every time.

Get a job at a successful development company. Learn all you can about the business from inside of a place that has it down.

I was freelancing as a teenager up until my early 20s, and I thought I was doing alright. Then I took a job at a place and learned a LOT. How to set more accurate deadlines, client interaction, how to properly hand off a project, how other successful developers are building software... a LOT.

I left that job after a year and started freelancing again but at a whole new level. I had made a ton connections at work for one, so finding a freelance project became a lot easier from that alone.

Personally I have had significantly better results with oDesk.com instead of freelancer.com. I don't know exactly what it is, but it feels like they have better values, and thus better clients.

A key point, that was a breakthrough in my career, was when I launched my new cool and modern website explaining services and portfolio. Then I started to receive random clients interested in my values.

What I am sure is that you need to build a portfolio. If you don't like freelancer.com for that, try with little personal side projects, open source projects, or doing work for friends for free/low prices.

To echo what others have said, and what worked for me: work at a small agency for a few years. Learn how to write good contracts, handle invoicing, and communicate with clients. Then take a few contracts on the side so you can figure out a rate that works for you, and so you can work on those skills in an environment where you aren't relying on the income. You'll know when the time is right to switch to full time freelancing.

Once you have proven yourself, you won't have to compete on price. Good clients will come to you.

I worked at a small agency for a year and a half and was very isolated from contract writing, invoicing and client communication. I would have gotten more if I stayed, but I think that often managers think their job is to isolate you, the workhorse, from the client craziness so that you stay focused and productive. So your YMMV with this strategy.

Meetups, conferences, industry events - go to anything and everything where you're likely to either meet potential peers, or potential employers. I've landed every job I've had doing either this, or through word-of-mouth of my work.

Also, sink some time into SaaS business software, or developer tools. Both lead to meeting aforementioned peers and employers.

Being young means you can move somewhere temporarily. Attract recruiters on LinkedIn, be flexible and go freelance when you are ready.

Get a permatemp position at a megacorp and leave before your skills go to mush. 6-12 months is all it takes

U need choose JUST ONE especiality like "content Writer" or Copywriter per example, and study every day about that, Find the best guys in the industry about your niche, AND PIGGYBACK Them!!! :)

In short, marketing. It's a trust thing, so it's easier to start local, in person - when remote, they're usually looking for people with a track record.

I started when I was 17 or 18, full time, self employed for the past 18 years. I decided my 20's gaining 20 years of business/consulting experience in 10 years of effort to kick ass in my 30, 40's and 50's, when many have to give up and walk away.

First, don't be above learning or above solving problems that take a small amount of time that save someone a lot of time. I am never above fixing someone's spreadsheet or access. In fact, both of these things start conversations of trying to solve problems with software that ends up in.. you guessed it, building software.

Single most important habit: Solving problems single handedly leads to getting long term relationships because you are more of a problem solver than just a freelancer with one or two tasks. Being known as someone who can learn and solve problems quickly and well earns you the trust and being the first call for people who value it.

About skills: If you look back a year, your skills were probably not as good as this year. Remember it will look the same in a year looking back to today. In a way, you do the worst work of your life each day, and that regular, and constant improvement is the only true pursuit.

The languages, frameworks, and technologies will come and go.

Value: Know what value you are adding. Truly. Not the sense of being special from growing up. Value in my books is saving or making someone money that is measurable in a way that I can help deliver. Freelancing more than startups is about the exchange of money.

Customers/Pricing: If you ask your customers "If I can save or make you $2000/month, would you pay me $1000?". Those who say yes to this without a single idea of what to do are often value focused. A lot of places can't afford a full time person, but many, can afford a $500-1000/month relationship with a freelancer for ongoing work. As long as you can identify, compile and line up similar work, you will be able to deliver. The consultant who helped me get my start me told me when I was starting out, find 10 customers to pay you $1000 a month.. and you have a business that isn't volatile.

Learning: In the beginning there will be putting in a lot of time learning how to measure and deliver value. This will take up more of your time than just doing the work or learning some tech (which will be ongoing). I'd put about booking your available time to be about 50% in the beginning while you get the rest of your process flowing. In your case, while being a student, I did items that got me time and didn't interfere too much with my studies and left me a lot of time to play and learn.

PG has a great essay for students and startups that applies to freelancing -- just solve problems people need solved and you'll find the money making kind of businesses very quickly compared to others your age.

Just remember you're not alone, or the first to do this and you can get ahead much quicker if you stay open to not wanting to think your situation is special and you have to figure out everything on your own. I did that a bit too much and it was not as necessary.

Post everywhere! Let everyone know you are trying to freelance.

Go to meetups and meet other freelancers.

The larger your network, the better you will do.

why do you want to be a freelancer? Especially when you're a young dev with lots of energy and passion.

Freelancing teaches business skills that transfer into building a business, which is what every startup wants to grow up and become. Learning to create value that people want and will pay for, is also a very transferable skill.

i don't see the connection. if freelancing is such a transferable skill, then you'd see a lot of successful startup ceos with freelancing backgrounds

Reply on news.ycombinator.com