With no trademark, Sriracha name is showing up everywhere | Hacker News Reader

With no trademark, Sriracha name is showing up everywhere

latimes.com

66 pointsethana54 comments

The "real deal" is TUONG OT SRIRACHA made by Huy Fong foods.

I have been a bit of a chili pepper, hot spice and hot sauce afficionado for a few decades. I grow many kinds of chilis in my garden and do lots of different things with them.

I remember seeing the Huy Fong Sriracha in a store about 10 years ago and thinking that it was unusually inexpensive given the s8ze of the bottle. Upon first use, I was surprised... almost floored. I remember thinking that this is the best chili sauce I have ever tasted.

I brought it to work, to family gatherings and gave away countless bottles. It seems like most people that like a hot spice tend to like the sauce.

I am of the opinion that lots of people know the Huy Fong botle, brand and taste. I liken it to Grey Poupon, one of the best mustards money can buy--ok Stadium Mustard is better IMO, but GP is still A+ material.

I have a feeling that Huy Fong has little to worry about. I have tried several competetors (one was3x the price) and they are all inferior.

if you haven't, you should visit thailand and vietnam.

I have to agree. It's a real disappointment to ask for "Sriracha Sauce" while travelling outside of North America, having the host say "yes, we have that", and then getting some watered down lukewarm sauce. (edit: to add to the comment below, this experience was at a seemingly authentic(ish) Thai restaurant in France with pictures of the king everywhere).

Huy Fong ought to brand their products like Pfizer is. (Though Pfizer is trying to sell brand over generics, which is ridiculous when it comes to medications).

> Though Pfizer is trying to sell brand over generics, which is ridiculous when it comes to medications

I'm pretty sure Pfizer is thinking "Tylenol does it. Why can't Viagra?"

Tylenol (J&J) has the advantage of being able to create 3 dozen products with the same ingredients and get a piece of shelf space every time because inevitably someone is going to come in and ask for "the red Tylenol for back pain caplets".

I wonder how many different kinds of sildenafil citrate we can get up to: "For night time sex", "For day time sex", "lay back and relax sex", etc, etc.

Yes, I think Huy Fong Foods "Sriracha" has a problem with brand confusion.

Huy Fong Foods "Sriracha" is different to real "Sriracha" in the Thai sense of the word (the ingredients are similar but the balance is quite different). Real "Sriracha" is around 800-1200 on the Scovilles scale and quite liquid (around 20% added water) because it's used as a dipping sauce. Huy Fong Foods "Sriracha" is 1000-2500 on the Scovilles scale and is much thicker (because it's used for squirting onto food).

Hot sauces are, unfortunately, a very location specific problem. Where I live in Australia, you're more likely to find Sambal Asli (which is very similar to Huy Fong Foods "Sriracha" with an Indonesian name).

Interesting that the owner named his company 'Huy Fong' after the boat on which he escaped Vietnam.

My first exposure to Sriracha was at cheap noodle joints where it was there along with the nhuc mum, soy sauce and spicy oil... Always made the noodles taste better.

I love chilli sauces and attempt to grow some. I've read about the real deal before, and found a bottle that looked helluva similar here in South Africa a few weeks ago. I was annoyed to see that the image on the front was a duck, not a rooster, so I still don't know what the real deal tastes like! I'll make a plan - maybe I can buy direct from them.

There are much better mustards than Grey Poupon and Stadium Mustard, though those two are not bad. It's hard to find good mustard in the US, but Trader Joe's Dijon is almost as good as it gets for a reasonable price without going to France.

Otherwise, try http://www.amazon.com/Amora-Dijon-Mustard/dp/B004AGBYRS but be warned that it is MUCH stronger than Grey Poupon and the like. Alternatively, http://www.amazon.com/Dijon-Mustard-Maille-13-4oz-Label/dp/B....

I agree that Trader Joe Dijon is outstanding. I would characterize it as equal to GP. However, Stadium Mustard is still top dog in my book.

There are many Trader Joe's products that I think are top quality, if not the best of their kind. If you have a Trader Joe's in your area and you have not sampled their wares, you are doing your taste buds a disservice.

Also, thank you for the recommendations!

"We spend enormous time protecting the word 'Tabasco' so that we don't have exactly this problem," Simmons said. "Why Mr. Tran did not do that, I don't know."

I think you just answered your own question, Mr. Simmons. Mr. Tran enjoys making delicious hot sauce, not spending his precious time running around suing people.

Tabasco could never be as big as Ketchup if only one provider was pushing it.

"Tran also said he was discouraged to seek a trademark because it would have been difficult getting one named after a real-life location...Unlike the name, Tran trademarked his rooster logo and distinctive bottle."

Tabasco is a state in Mexico, though; how were its trademark owners able to obtain the name?

Legally, it's due to context of use.

eg Microsoft doesn't own my ability to use the word windows as it pertains to the physical objects I look out of my house through. I can start a window company, and use the word windows accordingly. We have the clearest, best windows, of any window manufacturer.

Thanks for explaining that to me. To add to the confusion, tabasco is also a pepper cultivar named after the Mexican state.

"...the original spicy, sweet concoction — which was inspired by flavors from across Southeast Asia and named after a coastal city in Thailand."

No. His sauce is based on Thai Sriracha sauce (which is probably named after the Sriracha district in Thailand [1]). Trademarking the name would roughly be the equivalent of taking mustard to Thailand and trademarking "Mustard".

[1] http://shesimmers.com/2010/03/homemade-sriracha-how-to-make-...

Gosh, that'd be like trademarking a name based on a region of Mexico[1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabasco

You missed the point. It's not that it's named after a location, it's that the name was already (in Thailand) a generic term for a sauce based on chili peppers and garlic.

Only if that region were already famous for its Louisiana-style hot sauce.

He says it's free advertising for a company that's never had a marketing budget. It's unclear whether he's losing out: Sales of the original Sriracha have grown from $60 million to $80 million in the last two years alone.

Tran is so proud of the condiment's popularity that he maintains a daily ritual of searching the Internet for the latest Sriracha spinoff.

I like this man.

> Unlike the name, Tran trademarked his rooster logo and distinctive bottle.

yes, the cock. this is the one that matters. create a market (well, sub-market, really) from scratch, give away the name, and trademark the symbol that identifies your products as the original.

don't believe the aw shucks act for a minute, he's a killer businessman!

i went to school with some kids from his neighborhood - he runs in the same circles as the guy who started panda express.

Isn't it that older thai and asian brands are mostly image/icon (shark, dragon fly, squid ...) based anyway, since the adult illiteracy rate in the 1970s was still somewhere above 20% [1]. And that of older house wives, the assumed main target group of cooking ingredients was probably even higher. So it made little sense to go for a name only brand.

[1] http://www.h.chiba-u.ac.jp/mkt/Philippines.pdf

http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/brands.html

i have no idea what the hell you're talking about. huy fong foods is an american brand, based in california, sold to a US market.

I would be completely blind to other hot sauces in this category, which is not really true of almost any other kind of hot sauce or product I can think of. I didn't even realize there were other people making "Sriracha" sauce.

I have some loyalty to Zaaschila salsa for my breakfast tacos, but nothing like my level of loyalty to Sriracha. I'd buy Cholula or some kind of habenero salsa or something, if the store didn't have Zaaschila. But, I would buy nothing to replace it if they didn't have Huy Fong chili sauces (I like their chili garlic sauce even more than the standard chili sauce for cooking).

This is a pretty interesting experiment in trademark choices. I'll be interested to see how it plays out. Certainly Sriracha growth has been spectacular, and they do have a trademark on the distinctive bottle and rooster (and many people call it "rooster sauce" or "cock sauce"), which is what I'm looking for when I walk down the grocery aisle.

I think this is a great approach.

I always buy Huy Fong's one (and it is always available in most of the supermarkets where I live) anyway. The knockoffs just don't taste the same.

Accept no substitute for the rooster.

Same with Chili Garlic..

FWIW (anecdotal evidence to follow)- I've purchased other varieties of Sriracha sauce that were not the original Sriracha brand and they did not taste the same and they did not taste as good.

As long as the recipe is protected, Sriracha is largely untouchable. Folks will likely try other brands and then switch back when they're not satisfied. That and the fact that Sriracha isn't expensive make it tough competition for those trying to ride Huy Fong Foods' coattails.

Like others here, I'll compromise on Coke vs. Pepsi or Valentina/Cholula/Tabasco/etc. but I have not and will not compromise on the OG Sriracha.

Yes, Sriracha is actually cheaper than the generics I see. The generics try to sell a smaller size bottle for a lower price but $/ounce it's more expensive.

I don't think protecting the name is that important. Rightly they're protecting the rooster and design which to me is the most distinctive aspect.

Anyhow, I think there's plenty of room in the market for additional hot sauces and condiments. The smart ones will probably create their own unique flavor rather than always be viewed as an imitator.

The notion of Huy Fong Rooster being the original is also quite a stretch (that title woud arguably go to Sriraja Panich). It's just the brand of siracha that happens to be big in the US, other styles are different and most of the non-US ones are not even intendend to be copies of the Huy Fong variety. They have their own distinct tastes.

Is the recipe protected? The company was started back in the 1980s, so any patent would have long expired. If it's just a trade secret then his competitors can just perform laboratory analysis on it and legally copy it.

Does he not have legal grounds to sue for trademark infringement if he so desired? Just because it's not a registered trademark doesn't mean it's not a trademark. It's not like it's called "Hot Sauce (TM)" or something.

My mom regularly mistakes a nasty Texas Pete knockoff labeled Sriracha for the famous stuff.

Probably, but at this point he is at the Kleenex, Xerox, Google stage of brand name. He would do more harm then good if he pursued it.

The Google trademark lawyers would roll over in their crypt if they read your comment :).

Maybe if they saw blatant, copycat visuals (ehem, Bing), but not name-wise: I've never seen someone try to start a search engine called something like "The Better Google"

Sriracha is one of the few generics that Trader Joes is terrible at.

I second that. It's weak.

Thirded. How could their tasters and product manager let it out of development and testing. Hmm... a software analogy.

They should just sell the real thing. I made the same mistake. Should have taken it back.

If he had spent his time vigorously defending the word Sriracha instead of making tasty sauce would there even be a Sriracha craze or would he have labored in obsucrity producing for a tiny lawyer-guarded market segment?

Sometimes you have to choose whether to be the captain of a dinghy or a deckhand on a battleship.

I guess the answer is that there's room for both. Just as some seek out mass-produced pop music, there's also a large segment of the population that seeks out the exact opposite.

this is all good and the guy has a commendable mindset, but really it's a bit naive no? Eventually this will hurt him. Because there will be so many alternatives, of same quality or not, that someone will ask him why they should buy his and he'll say it's the "Original". But without putting that on the bottle and a little TM business, he wont' have much to go on. Seeing the existence of Sriracha Heinz this week makes me think they will overpower him slowly and quietly.

Of course, if he's 70, maybe he'll be fine drifting into oblivion on his pile of money hehe

isn't there a common-law trademark (from usage rather than filing) -

http://www.google.hu/search?q=common-law+trademark

If he wanted to stop it, perhaps.

That's what I find strange about the article. They seem to imply that it is too late because he never filed for a trademark.

No mention of the fact that Tran's sauce is an americanized knockoff (made with jalapeno peppers) of legitimate Sriracha sauce from Sri Racha, Thailand.

You can't "knock off" a cuisine concept, only a specific product.

Also, I'm kind of sick of the notion that any recipe invented in America must automatically be inferior to its foreign predecessor. It's ridiculous to care more about how "authentic" food is than about how it actually tastes.

there's still a registered trademark for the logo, which includes the word "SRIRACHA" in it.

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=74021095&caseType=SERIAL_N...

I find sriracha to be "meh." Cholula all day, all long

I've grown tired of this obsession with Sriracha. Comments, articles, shirts, holloween costumes, overheard comments from people in restaurants, ...

that would be the definition of a 'fad' it's not the first, and it won't be the last

Yeah, but this has taken on some other unexplained level of weirdness.

How so? Fads generally involve some lowest common denominator form of a thing lots of people enjoy. Once the novelty wears off, reinventions (candied bacon, anyone?) become part of the fad's empire until it fizzles or reaches a background-level steady state.

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