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Comment by maaku | Hacker News Reader

I lose serious productivity at 30hrs. But I manage to fill in the corners with mindless tasks like answering emails. I think 80 hours a week is only achievable with the help of drugs i.e. caffeine

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Speaking of silicon valley, it seems like it's often:

* Caffeine in public, or for starters, and then adderall or something more potent,

* Alcohol after work to wind down,

* Maybe oxycodone or heroin.

If it seems like your problems can be solved by working more hours, then you end up medicating yourself into oblivion, blowing up, or burning out.

I am also baffled by the idea of working 80 hours in a week.

Well, its not just peeps in SV that use the caffeine + alcohol recipe for productivity, its pretty much all of America. Speaking anecdotally, I find that Caffeine makes me super alert and alcohol super relaxed, both of which are the intended effects. But I do make a point to not abuse either of them, simply because I don't want my senses to get numbed by their effect.

what's the difference between daily use of coffee/alcohol and abuse?

One beer a day is not abuse? I drink 1 beer at workdays and probably 10+ in the weekend usually in one night. Needless to say, the day after having those I do not drink any beer at all and suffer from a hangover... Which in turn sometimes sort of is enjoyable because it makes you stop thinking for a day.

A doctor would probably classify this as some level of abuse, since medically accepted drinking levels are low (few drinks a week, I think?). Even if its just "1 per day", chemical dependency in order to function is usually seen as an issue. Sure, small doses of coffee & alcohol are well... small, but there are tons of people out there who rely on neither at all, where as the absence of these "small" doses would greatly impact your life. EDIT: I should mention though that I am not really against small-dose self-medication, as the alternative of getting medicated through the "proper system" is probably even more frightening. I do wish I could kick all small-dose habits though, rather than dealing with relapses (boring work without coffee is haaaard) & other compensatory habits.

As for your 10+ beers followed by welcome hangover comment, I believe Adorno addresses this in Minima Moralia and some of his other texts. His basic belief is that people are so alienated from themselves that they treat the weekend (their only time to really be themselves completely) as a respite that will ready them for the onslaught of the next week's work. Basically, the work week and attitudes that have arisen to rationalize it are a system of total self-alienation, with all traces of your "in an ideal world" personality smothered out of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minima_Moralia

Anyway, sorry if this came off sounding very dramatic. I really am not like deeply worried about you, hah, I'm just saying from a theoretical standpoint what you're describing does not prove your point at all. It's more like you're just using black humor to perpetuate bread&circus mentality.

Not to discredit what you're saying, but I've heard two drinks a day for men, and no more than 4(?) in a single day is not considered abuse.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healt...

Daily use of such substances is abuse, pure and simple. If you can't function without your morning coffee, then your body has adjusted to the presence of caffeine and you are abusing the substance. Doesn't matter if everyone does it or not, medically speaking.

Personally I don't drink coffee unless I'm interviewing someone at a coffee shop (even then I sometimes order hot chocolate), and only drink socially. Does that mean I work less than some adderall-infused college kid? Maybe. But quality of life and stability should also be valid concerns.

> But I manage to fill in the corners with mindless tasks like answering emails. I think 80 hours a week is only achievable with the help of drugs i.e. caffeine

I work 60+ hours a week at my startup and 20+ hours on various side projects.

I also am completely anti-stimulants (include caffeine). If you truly believe in what you're doing (in my case, engineering the future of culture to retain intellectual thought while simultaneously building my financial independence), it's trivial to work long hours through adrenaline alone.

Well, I guess if your life is your work you have to choice but do it 24 hours a day. I got to experience that at grad time, it's not even stressful. In fact, it may be quite funny.

The bad side is that if your work fails for some reason (as work often does), your entire life failed.

Do you have a family?

No, I'm young.

How is your health?

My health is fine. Since I don't have a family or many friends, I'm still able to get plenty of sleep despite working a lot.

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